On the topic of cancellations, I've often wondered what the paradigm is.
I've often wondered about "the equation" for deciding when a title gets the axe as well. I've never been able to decipher what the final straw is with regards to cancelling a series. I remember when Marvel pulled the plug on the ill fated "Doctor Voodoo" series before the first issue was even released. With that kind of support, why even put the book out at all?
On the topic of cancellations, I've often wondered what the paradigm is.
I've often wondered about "the equation" for deciding when a title gets the axe as well. I've never been able to decipher what the final straw is with regards to cancelling a series. I remember when Marvel pulled the plug on the ill fated "Doctor Voodoo" series before the first issue was even released. With that kind of support, why even put the book out at all?
I've often wondered that myself, and whenever I say that these titles aren't even allowed to build up an audience through word of mouth and positive reviews, someone always points out that that simply doesn't happen anyway today. Virtually every title's first issue sales and second issue drop-off will tell you what it will be selling in four, eight, twelve, etc, months.
But when did that become the case? Surely, titles like Preacher, Sandman, Starman and Walking Dead didn't start out with stellar sales? And if that really is the case, then why bother launching a series like, to use your example, Brother Voodoo? They know going in that the audience is limited.
It's admirable that they've launched a number of titles featuring female characters, but if they're not willing to publish anything that drops below the 20,000 mark, then why do it?
On the topic of cancellations, I've often wondered what the paradigm is.
I've often wondered about "the equation" for deciding when a title gets the axe as well. I've never been able to decipher what the final straw is with regards to cancelling a series. I remember when Marvel pulled the plug on the ill fated "Doctor Voodoo" series before the first issue was even released. With that kind of support, why even put the book out at all?
I've often wondered that myself, and whenever I say that these titles aren't even allowed to build up an audience through word of mouth and positive reviews, someone always points out that that simply doesn't happen anyway today. Virtually every title's first issue sales and second issue drop-off will tell you what it will be selling in four, eight, twelve, etc, months.
But when did that become the case? Surely, titles like Preacher, Sandman, Starman and Walking Dead didn't start out with stellar sales? And if that really is the case, then why bother launching a series like, to use your example, Brother Voodoo? They know going in that the audience is limited.
It's admirable that they've launched a number of titles featuring female characters, but if they're not willing to publish anything that drops below the 20,000 mark, then why do it?
There are a variety of reasons. Partly it’s to keep their trademarks and copyrights active. Partly it’s to keep a certain percentage of the market share—the more titles they can sell, even if they don't sell well, the fewer titles from other companies will likely sell. Partly it's to keep characters visible for licensing purposes. (Ooh, we've got a Guardians of the Galaxy movie coming up. Let’s put out a Rocket Racoon series.) Occasionally it's partly done to keep editors busy and/or creators happy. Partly it’s to help get ads in front of a certain number of eyes. Sometimes they actually think they might have a surprise hit on their hands. And it's good PR to have a few titles starring a minority character, even if you don't think it will sell.
On the topic of cancellations, I've often wondered what the paradigm is.
I've often wondered about "the equation" for deciding when a title gets the axe as well. I've never been able to decipher what the final straw is with regards to cancelling a series. I remember when Marvel pulled the plug on the ill fated "Doctor Voodoo" series before the first issue was even released. With that kind of support, why even put the book out at all?
The first issue orders were already in, and if they did the math, it would be losing money by the 6th or 7th issue. So, they turned it into a mini-series and moved on.
DC and Marvel can pretty much tell how well a book will be selling by issue #4 when they get the orders for #1.
On the topic of cancellations, I've often wondered what the paradigm is.
I've often wondered about "the equation" for deciding when a title gets the axe as well. I've never been able to decipher what the final straw is with regards to cancelling a series. I remember when Marvel pulled the plug on the ill fated "Doctor Voodoo" series before the first issue was even released. With that kind of support, why even put the book out at all?
But when did that become the case? Surely, titles like Preacher, Sandman, Starman and Walking Dead didn't start out with stellar sales? And if that really is the case, then why bother launching a series like, to use your example, Brother Voodoo? They know going in that the audience is limited.
Preacher was a hit right out of the gate, but Sandman was selling so poorly they did a HUGE promotion with issue #8 (the introduction of Death) by shipping double a shop's order for free, platinum covers and all sorts of other promotions. The shop I ran even got a letter from Jenette Khan asking us to order more, as they thought the book was the best thing they were publishing. They were very frank int he letter, stating that if sales weren't higher with that issue, the book would end with issue #12.
Sandman NEVER sold well as single issues. The trades were what made all of the money.
On the topic of cancellations, I've often wondered what the paradigm is.
I've often wondered about "the equation" for deciding when a title gets the axe as well. I've never been able to decipher what the final straw is with regards to cancelling a series. I remember when Marvel pulled the plug on the ill fated "Doctor Voodoo" series before the first issue was even released. With that kind of support, why even put the book out at all?
But when did that become the case? Surely, titles like Preacher, Sandman, Starman and Walking Dead didn't start out with stellar sales? And if that really is the case, then why bother launching a series like, to use your example, Brother Voodoo? They know going in that the audience is limited.
Preacher was a hit right out of the gate, but Sandman was selling so poorly they did a HUGE promotion with issue #8 (the introduction of Death) by shipping double a shop's order for free, platinum covers and all sorts of other promotions. The shop I ran even got a letter from Jenette Khan asking us to order more, as they thought the book was the best thing they were publishing. They were very frank int he letter, stating that if sales weren't higher with that issue, the book would end with issue #12.
Sandman NEVER sold well as single issues. The trades were what made all of the money.
That surprised me about Preacher. I'd always imagined it was a slow starter, but I also wasn't reading comics at the time it debuted.
I guess I'm just stuck in the '80s, when I first got into comics - for me and my friends, reading a series rarely involved jumping in at number one. We'd hear it was good, and start reading with whatever issue was on the stands. The way things are now, it feels like we're doomed to have the same core series, with repeated failed attempts at launching properties that already failed in the past, and rare attempts to try something new that likely won't last a year. That's a big part of why I don't get as excited about comics anymore.
I guess I'm just stuck in the '80s, when I first got into comics - for me and my friends, reading a series rarely involved jumping in at number one. We'd hear it was good, and start reading with whatever issue was on the stands. The way things are now, it feels like we're doomed to have the same core series, with repeated failed attempts at launching properties that already failed in the past, and rare attempts to try something new that likely won't last a year. That's a big part of why I don't get as excited about comics anymore.
That's how it was for me, so you're not alone. I jumped into X-Men smack in the middle of the Brood saga (the first one) and New Teen Titans around issue #3 or 4 - both solely based on word of mouth. You bought first issues only if they looked cool or for bragging rights to say you had the first issue of it.
Nowadays everything's a first issue or just wait a bit and eventually it will be. :)
That's totally alien to me. I always tried to pick up the first few issues of a comic to see if I liked it; if I didn't, I dropped it. Waiting for other people's opinions weren't all that helpful to me, unless it was to inform me that a book improved sharply sometime after I dropped it. And I didn't want the hassle of trying to pick up the issues I would have missed if I'd waited.
That's totally alien to me. I always tried to pick up the first few issues of a comic to see if I liked it; if I didn't, I dropped it. Waiting for other people's opinions weren't all that helpful to me, unless it was to inform me that a book improved sharply sometime after I dropped it. And I didn't want the hassle of trying to pick up the issues I would have missed if I'd waited.
There were times back then when I jumped on first issues, but even then, it typically had some connection to an already existing property. I remember buying Batman and the Outsiders from the beginning. Wolverine, The Punisher, as well.
But back then, most titles were ones that had been running for years, so you'd wait until one of your friends said "Hey, Iron Man is pretty good right now," and then you'd get on board. And when it started to suck again, you'd jump off, maybe start something new. It would always be there to read when it got good again, with the same numbering, so waiting for a new number one wasn't an issue.
Tie-ins could also drag you in. I remember X-Men getting me to read Thor and Power Pack at some point, and sticking with both of them for a while. I just read them from that point, and didn't feel the need to track down back issues to know what happened. It was a lot like when I watched reruns of old TV shows back then - you couldn't rent or stream the past episodes, so it just made sense to start watching and following at whatever point you started.
back then, most titles were ones that had been running for years, so you'd wait until one of your friends said "Hey, Iron Man is pretty good right now," and then you'd get on board. And when it started to suck again, you'd jump off, maybe start something new. It would always be there to read when it got good again, with the same numbering, so waiting for a new number one wasn't an issue.
Tie-ins could also drag you in. I remember X-Men getting me to read Thor and Power Pack at some point, and sticking with both of them for a while. I just read them from that point, and didn't feel the need to track down back issues to know what happened. It was a lot like when I watched reruns of old TV shows back then - you couldn't rent or stream the past episodes, so it just made sense to start watching and following at whatever point you started.
This was my experience as well. The only #1 issues back then were brand new characters or when someone got a solo title or a limited series. I don't think we'll ever see another book hit 700+ issues again.
Part of why I like this She-Hulk book is we are obviously NOT getting a retread of her origin or trying to get people caught up. We're just catching back up with Jennifer and having a good time with it.
I will admit that all of the new #1's for Marvel is starting remind me of the embossed covers of the 90's - gimmick. It's getting old.
EXACTLY! Zero explanation how Starlord (and Thanos) escaped the Cancerverse (or if there has been, I missed it). If Starlord is back, then Nova should be too. And if not, then there is a story to be told that I would like to read.
It was either "You don't wanna know" or "Never talk about that again" or something, last I saw.
Does anyone know a good website that'll show DC v. Marvel sales? I'm looking for something that'd hopefully go back years...back to the 60s would be the best.
Does anyone know a good website that'll show DC v. Marvel sales? I'm looking for something that'd hopefully go back years...back to the 60s would be the best.
Does anyone know a good website that'll show DC v. Marvel sales? I'm looking for something that'd hopefully go back years...back to the 60s would be the best.
M
Your only option may be to get a hold of the spreadsheets maintained by John Mayo (Comic Book Page Podcast). I don't think anyone has been keeping up with those trends longer.
Does anyone know a good website that'll show DC v. Marvel sales? I'm looking for something that'd hopefully go back years...back to the 60s would be the best.
M
Comichron is a bit difficult to navigate through, but it's the best source for that.
Thanks for the advice. I wanted to research to hopefully prove that Marvel doesn't have worthless characters & does have a fanbase.
M
Hopefully that task won't be too daunting. I wouldn't expect it to be, but I am kind of a Marvel zombie these days.
It's probably a pointless task. Since I don't agree that Thor is a rip off of Superman & Iron Man of Batman, nor do I believe that Marvel's characters are weak, I'm being labeled a Marvel lover instead of neutral. Too many people drinking the Kool-Aid!!
Batman-news.com. Interestingly enough, the same people bashing Snyder, Affleck, Gadot, Eisenberg, & everything "Batman v. Superman" are saying the movie will kick Cap 3's ass. Apparently Cap is a weak character no one likes.
Comments
But when did that become the case? Surely, titles like Preacher, Sandman, Starman and Walking Dead didn't start out with stellar sales? And if that really is the case, then why bother launching a series like, to use your example, Brother Voodoo? They know going in that the audience is limited.
It's admirable that they've launched a number of titles featuring female characters, but if they're not willing to publish anything that drops below the 20,000 mark, then why do it?
DC and Marvel can pretty much tell how well a book will be selling by issue #4 when they get the orders for #1.
Sandman NEVER sold well as single issues. The trades were what made all of the money.
I guess I'm just stuck in the '80s, when I first got into comics - for me and my friends, reading a series rarely involved jumping in at number one. We'd hear it was good, and start reading with whatever issue was on the stands. The way things are now, it feels like we're doomed to have the same core series, with repeated failed attempts at launching properties that already failed in the past, and rare attempts to try something new that likely won't last a year. That's a big part of why I don't get as excited about comics anymore.
Nowadays everything's a first issue or just wait a bit and eventually it will be. :)
But back then, most titles were ones that had been running for years, so you'd wait until one of your friends said "Hey, Iron Man is pretty good right now," and then you'd get on board. And when it started to suck again, you'd jump off, maybe start something new. It would always be there to read when it got good again, with the same numbering, so waiting for a new number one wasn't an issue.
Tie-ins could also drag you in. I remember X-Men getting me to read Thor and Power Pack at some point, and sticking with both of them for a while. I just read them from that point, and didn't feel the need to track down back issues to know what happened. It was a lot like when I watched reruns of old TV shows back then - you couldn't rent or stream the past episodes, so it just made sense to start watching and following at whatever point you started.
Part of why I like this She-Hulk book is we are obviously NOT getting a retread of her origin or trying to get people caught up. We're just catching back up with Jennifer and having a good time with it.
I will admit that all of the new #1's for Marvel is starting remind me of the embossed covers of the 90's - gimmick. It's getting old.
B-)
M
M
Hopefully that task won't be too daunting. I wouldn't expect it to be, but I am kind of a Marvel zombie these days.
M
M