Actually, past presidents *used* the word. Meaning they applied to people. Called people it. In private, which is actually worse, in my opinion. Because that was how they spoke when they didn't expect the public to listen.
What the current president did is *refer* to the word, as part of a conversation on racism. He was talking about how the word gets used these days. Which is different than being a president and using it yourself.
Also, for what it is worth, podcasts are not public broadcasts. You have to opt into them. Seek them out and download them. Unlike broadcast TV or radio, there is no risk of accidentally flipping channels or tuning a radio and getting a podcast. They are only heard by those that seek them out.
If news outlets decided to take excerpts and broadcast it, leaving the rest of the conversation and context behind, then that is on them.
Actually, past presidents *used* the word. Meaning they applied to people. Called people it. In private, which is actually worse, in my opinion. Because that was how they spoke when they didn't expect the public to listen.
What the current president did is *refer* to the word, as part of a conversation on racism. He was talking about how the word gets used these days. Which is different than being a president and using it yourself.
Also, for what it is worth, podcasts are not public broadcasts. You have to opt into them. Seek them out and download them. Unlike broadcast TV or radio, there is no risk of accidentally flipping channels or tuning a radio and getting a podcast. They are only heard by those that seek them out.
If news outlets decided to take excerpts and broadcast it, leaving the rest of the conversation and context behind, then that is on them.
The whole hour. When he could've celebrated the Charleston community for coming together in the midst of a tragedy, he instead chose to focus on gun-control politics, blur mass murder numbers to fit his ideology, and went so far as to use the n-bomb to lecture people on how racism is still a big problem in a country that elected a black man President, twice.
I don't tolerate that word from anyone, no matter the context. It is divisive - and to do it on a comedy podcast was classless. And to think that this is a President that frequently hosts music artists that use the n-bomb liberally.
I'm just disappointed that when this town is healing and demonstrating love, faith and forgiveness, President Obama is lobbing the n-bomb, stirring up painful feelings, politicizing tragedy, and lecturing the country. Thank God he wasn't the commander in chief on 9/11/2001.
So what he really did that offended you was be Barack Obama, sounds like...
The members of that church and community are acting like Jesus and coming together, whether the media recognizes that or not and basically the President is doing the opposite. Sorry folks, no race riots here.
I don’t think anyone uses that word, even in a sterilized, talking-point context, without knowing that it’s going to cause a major media meltdown. If you’re the president, you’re particularly aware of this. And it is a public broadcast in the sense that it was meant for public consumption. I'm sure everyone here knows the difference, even if you are not a fan of the President.
I get that you don't think I have a right to be disappointed, but I believe my reaction is justified. Obviously, there’s a difference between saying the N-word in the context it was used in the podcast, and saying it from a place of anger or malice. That being said, I don’t think it’s out of line to be upset over it. Personally, I felt nauseated, as I do when I hear that word in any context.
I get that it is probably pointless to criticize a black president for using an abhorrent racial slur even to make what he believes is a point about race relations, but is it not fair for people of all colors to stand up and say “no” to a word that they believe has no place in modern discourse?
I would not tolerate that word used about the President, Sir. I was disappointed to hear it from him. I can only imagine what those that are perfectly fine with it would have thought if it had been our last President evoking the n-word in regards to racial disharmony on a comedian's podcast. Would they have thought it was "cool?"
@bralinator To be clear, as I think you sometimes jump to this conclusion--
There is a difference between people disagreeing with your take, and people telling you that you "don't have a right" to those feelings.
That is a straw man. I don't see anyone disagreeing with you actually telling you what you do or don't have a right to think or feel. I think you would agree there is room for a range of opinion on these sorts of issues. Someone putting a differing one forward is not the same as displacing yours, or accusing you of being "out of line", which no one actually said.
Funny how black folks are supposed to be all Jesus-y and turn yet another cheek, while America is supposed to get all wrath of God after 9-11.
It would appear that many Americans, including the President, strangely seem a bit disappointed by how Christians in Charleston have used the Charleston atrocity to glorify God from the pulpit of Emanuel AME Church instead of looking to the Bully Pulpit or starting some kind of riot. Rev Al must have been placed under a restraining order or something.
More favorable things have been said about the Brown and Martin families than those courageous relatives of the Charleston 9, expressing far more understanding about the reactions in Baltimore and Ferguson. Regrettably, President Obama never called rioting an “unimaginable” response to a justified police shooting; but that was his reaction to a call for Christian forgiveness, something that has now been shamefully referred to as getting all "Jesus-ey."
Far more dignity was demonstrated in the pulpit teaching how we all ought to act as children of God, and it came from Rev. Norvell Goff of Emanuel AME Church. But while Rev. Goff was assuring us that - despite the darkness, because of the grace of God, “joy comes in the morning,” video was being released of this podcast recording in a Los Angeles garage assuring us that racism is in our DNA. An idea I bet Dylann Roof was into as well.
So humbled to see the people of Charleston respond in a "Jesus-ey" way instead of the race war that wanna-be Charles Manson envisioned. Just disappointed our President didn't herald such a response the way he understood rioters. So, no, I didn't think it was cool. I thought it was hypocritical, disengenuous and took attention away from a more inspiring and important message.
I wouldn't dare to presume to know what the people (not just the Christians) of Charleston are thinking. I wouldn't dare to speak for them or their values or how they choose to move forward. If only all of this gnashing of teeth was present when all of that so-called stirring up and politicizing and lecturing and downright insensitivity was directed towards the President himself over the years. Funny how suddenly people want him to act with respect after years of not giving him the same. True colors are definitely showing with this non-story.
I wouldn't dare to presume to know what the people (not just the Christians) of Charleston are thinking. I wouldn't dare to speak for them or their values or how they choose to move forward. If only all of this gnashing of teeth was present when all of that so-called stirring up and politicizing and lecturing and downright insensitivity was directed towards the President himself over the years. Funny how suddenly people want him to act with respect after years of not giving him the same. True colors are definitely showing with this non-story.
You're right it is a non-story. Both what he said and where he said it isn't enough for me to care enough to finish this sente...
"A word that is used 500,000 times a day on Twitter — as “nigga” is, according to search data on the social media analytics Web site Topsy.com — is almost by definition beyond banning. By comparison, “bro” and “dude” — two of the terms with which the n-word is synonymous to many people younger than 35 — are used 300,000 and 200,000 times, respectively. For many of this generation, the word is tossed around unthinkingly, no more impactful than a comma."
"And it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public,"
No usage is referred to. No context is presented. He is saying that the polite gesture of not using the word in public is not proof that rasism is dead. Its not about a word. Its about a mentality.
Many people would argue that the use of the term "the n-word" is racist. Its a way to say a word without verbalizing it, yet everyone in earshot is thinking the exact word that is being avoided (think Fox news and old people). Its like "he who will not be named". Making something taboo gives it power.
The fact that 500,000 tweets include it shows that all those users are racist or they use it for entirely different reasons.
Again, to quote Carlin, "There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions, and words."
The president used the word nigger. The article you quoted is talking about nigga. Two different things. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm not even talking about someone's right tot say either of them. But the statistics you're trying to throw into the mix have nothing to do with they situation the President is talking about. It's a deflection from his point. Just like the deflection of saying the Charleston attack was an attack on faith.
"One is not better than the other" means they are equal or the same.
From the same article with the "deflection" statistics...
"One of the biggest problems in confronting the n-word is that, for decades now, there have existed two n-words, one that ends in “er” and one that ends in “a.” For many, they have distinctly different meanings — the “er” version linked to the word’s hateful, racist origins, the other more a term of endearment.
But it isn’t quite that simple. There are those who argue that the versions are not so much distinct words as they are different pronunciations of the same word, with the same vile underpinnings. “You change a vowel or two. It doesn’t change the meaning,” said Dineytra Lee, a dancer and youth advocate in Los Angeles who is of African American and Puerto Rican heritage.
At its essence, the word — in either form — remains inseparable from its basic, historic meaning. Even if you believe the form that ends in “er” and the one that ends in “a” are two distinct words, the latter would not exist were it not for the former. And the former would not exist were it not for the scourge of racism.
There is no better proof of its enduring toxicity than the fact that, in polite society, it is spoken and written only in its euphemistic shorthand — “the n-word” — than its full, spelled-out form"
Imaginary Worlds-- a weekly podcast about SF and other genres. "How we create them and why we suspend our disbelief". Some episodes that might be of interest--
So what he really did that offended you was be Barack Obama, sounds like...
Not at all, though I'm guessing that's the biggest reason why you thought it was "cool" and worth posting twice.
No.
I really was impressed by the national conversation being triggered by something on a podcast--a medium which I and many of the folks on this forum have followed from its infancy.
You're the one who decided to inflict your politics upon us.
There might be one with Stuart Scott of ESPN from right after he has nominated the first time. I can't remember if that was an interview or podcast.
As longest of longtime bs report listeners (eye of the sportsguy) I remember Bill being really pissed that ESPN took that original interview away from him.
You're the one who decided to inflict your politics upon us.
No, the big guy started that when he politicized a tragedy as his bully pulpit to discuss guns, racism and toss out the n-word on a comedy podcast when referencing this awful incident. I just expressed exactly why I didn't think it was "cool".
This isn't our President's first podcast by a longshot, nor did it introduce the world to podcasting. It did, however, make this particular podcast WTF With Marc Maron, the #1 podcast this week.
Not to beat this horse any dead-er... if you haven't gotten enough Presidential politics podcasts, it may interest you to know that not only does NPR host three of the Top 10 podcasts in the world, but the White House itself produces several weekly podcasts featuring the President as well as the First Lady. This particular appearance is only unique in that he used offensive terminology in the aftermath of a tragedy which I felt was more divisive than healing.
Alex Goldman and PJ Voight are an excellent pair of podcasters. They have had two shows now, reporting and finding stories about Internet culture. Their old one, which was cancelled not long after they left, but still available, is TLDR, from WNYC's On The Media. Some episodes of that to recommend--
Managing a Monster - about the Slender Man phenomenon. (And I believe this story was reported before there was a stabbing that was claimed to be inspired by Slender Man, so this doesn't mention that or get into it, it is a more innocent take.)
Ghost Town- about M-Net, and those that still haunt some of the Internet's earliest communities.
And if you are not aware of their new show, Reply All, that has been excellent. I would say you could try any of them, but I was particularly struck by last week's, Shipped to Timbuktu
Comments
What the current president did is *refer* to the word, as part of a conversation on racism. He was talking about how the word gets used these days. Which is different than being a president and using it yourself.
Also, for what it is worth, podcasts are not public broadcasts. You have to opt into them. Seek them out and download them. Unlike broadcast TV or radio, there is no risk of accidentally flipping channels or tuning a radio and getting a podcast. They are only heard by those that seek them out.
If news outlets decided to take excerpts and broadcast it, leaving the rest of the conversation and context behind, then that is on them.
The time for healing is after the disease has been eliminated.
All that has been done is an application of Band-Aids.
I don’t think anyone uses that word, even in a sterilized, talking-point context, without knowing that it’s going to cause a major media meltdown. If you’re the president, you’re particularly aware of this. And it is a public broadcast in the sense that it was meant for public consumption. I'm sure everyone here knows the difference, even if you are not a fan of the President.
I get that you don't think I have a right to be disappointed, but I believe my reaction is justified. Obviously, there’s a difference between saying the N-word in the context it was used in the podcast, and saying it from a place of anger or malice. That being said, I don’t think it’s out of line to be upset over it. Personally, I felt nauseated, as I do when I hear that word in any context.
I get that it is probably pointless to criticize a black president for using an abhorrent racial slur even to make what he believes is a point about race relations, but is it not fair for people of all colors to stand up and say “no” to a word that they believe has no place in modern discourse?
I would not tolerate that word used about the President, Sir. I was disappointed to hear it from him. I can only imagine what those that are perfectly fine with it would have thought if it had been our last President evoking the n-word in regards to racial disharmony on a comedian's podcast. Would they have thought it was "cool?"
Classless.
And "yes," the word was "healing"
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/Local-Pastors-Say-Pray-for-Racial-Healing-and-Reconciliation-in-Wake-of-Charleston-Church-Shooting-308534731.html
There is a difference between people disagreeing with your take, and people telling you that you "don't have a right" to those feelings.
That is a straw man. I don't see anyone disagreeing with you actually telling you what you do or don't have a right to think or feel. I think you would agree there is room for a range of opinion on these sorts of issues. Someone putting a differing one forward is not the same as displacing yours, or accusing you of being "out of line", which no one actually said.
One of the founders of that very church was executed for leading a revolt.
Then The Citadel was built with its guns trained on the church.
Then it was burned down.
Funny how black folks are supposed to be all Jesus-y and turn yet another cheek, while America is supposed to get all wrath of God after 9-11.
More favorable things have been said about the Brown and Martin families than those courageous relatives of the Charleston 9, expressing far more understanding about the reactions in Baltimore and Ferguson. Regrettably, President Obama never called rioting an “unimaginable” response to a justified police shooting; but that was his reaction to a call for Christian forgiveness, something that has now been shamefully referred to as getting all "Jesus-ey."
Far more dignity was demonstrated in the pulpit teaching how we all ought to act as children of God, and it came from Rev. Norvell Goff of Emanuel AME Church. But while Rev. Goff was assuring us that - despite the darkness, because of the grace of God, “joy comes in the morning,” video was being released of this podcast recording in a Los Angeles garage assuring us that racism is in our DNA. An idea I bet Dylann Roof was into as well.
So humbled to see the people of Charleston respond in a "Jesus-ey" way instead of the race war that wanna-be Charles Manson envisioned. Just disappointed our President didn't herald such a response the way he understood rioters. So, no, I didn't think it was cool. I thought it was hypocritical, disengenuous and took attention away from a more inspiring and important message. Not at all, though I'm guessing that's the biggest reason why you thought it was "cool" and worth posting twice.
"There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions, and words."
"A word that is used 500,000 times a day on Twitter — as “nigga” is, according to search data on the social media analytics Web site Topsy.com — is almost by definition beyond banning. By comparison, “bro” and “dude” — two of the terms with which the n-word is synonymous to many people younger than 35 — are used 300,000 and 200,000 times, respectively. For many of this generation, the word is tossed around unthinkingly, no more impactful than a comma."
No usage is referred to. No context is presented. He is saying that the polite gesture of not using the word in public is not proof that rasism is dead. Its not about a word. Its about a mentality.
Many people would argue that the use of the term "the n-word" is racist. Its a way to say a word without verbalizing it, yet everyone in earshot is thinking the exact word that is being avoided (think Fox news and old people). Its like "he who will not be named". Making something taboo gives it power.
The fact that 500,000 tweets include it shows that all those users are racist or they use it for entirely different reasons.
Again, to quote Carlin, "There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions, and words."
From the same article with the "deflection" statistics...
"One of the biggest problems in confronting the n-word is that, for decades now, there have existed two n-words, one that ends in “er” and one that ends in “a.” For many, they have distinctly different meanings — the “er” version linked to the word’s hateful, racist origins, the other more a term of endearment.
But it isn’t quite that simple. There are those who argue that the versions are not so much distinct words as they are different pronunciations of the same word, with the same vile underpinnings. “You change a vowel or two. It doesn’t change the meaning,” said Dineytra Lee, a dancer and youth advocate in Los Angeles who is of African American and Puerto Rican heritage.
At its essence, the word — in either form — remains inseparable from its basic, historic meaning. Even if you believe the form that ends in “er” and the one that ends in “a” are two distinct words, the latter would not exist were it not for the former. And the former would not exist were it not for the scourge of racism.
There is no better proof of its enduring toxicity than the fact that, in polite society, it is spoken and written only in its euphemistic shorthand — “the n-word” — than its full, spelled-out form"
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/11/09/the-n-word-an-entrenched-racial-slur-now-more-prevalent-than-ever/?hpid=z2)
Either way, Obama's point isn't about words. It's about thoughts and intentions.
Imaginary Worlds-- a weekly podcast about SF and other genres. "How we create them and why we suspend our disbelief". Some episodes that might be of interest--
The Greatest Cartoon Almost Made
The Canon
99% Invisible, about where design meets everyday life, is always good. I would say you could try any episode of it. But some recent favorites--
All In Your Head
Game Over
http://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/378577902/how-to-become-batman?showDate=2015-01-23
http://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/385792677/our-computers-ourselves?showDate=2015-02-13
http://www.marketplace.org/marketplace-podcasts
I really was impressed by the national conversation being triggered by something on a podcast--a medium which I and many of the folks on this forum have followed from its infancy.
You're the one who decided to inflict your politics upon us.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/b-s-report-barack-obama/
As longest of longtime bs report listeners (eye of the sportsguy) I remember Bill being really pissed that ESPN took that original interview away from him.
This isn't our President's first podcast by a longshot, nor did it introduce the world to podcasting. It did, however, make this particular podcast WTF With Marc Maron, the #1 podcast this week.
Not to beat this horse any dead-er... if you haven't gotten enough Presidential politics podcasts, it may interest you to know that not only does NPR host three of the Top 10 podcasts in the world, but the White House itself produces several weekly podcasts featuring the President as well as the First Lady. This particular appearance is only unique in that he used offensive terminology in the aftermath of a tragedy which I felt was more divisive than healing.
Managing a Monster - about the Slender Man phenomenon. (And I believe this story was reported before there was a stabbing that was claimed to be inspired by Slender Man, so this doesn't mention that or get into it, it is a more innocent take.)
Ghost Town- about M-Net, and those that still haunt some of the Internet's earliest communities.
And if you are not aware of their new show, Reply All, that has been excellent. I would say you could try any of them, but I was particularly struck by last week's, Shipped to Timbuktu
Real Time with Bill Maher
Freakanomics Radio
Science Friday
Serial
Star Talk
NPR Wait Wait Don't Tell Me
CGS
iFanboy
Serial
:-bd