It's weird. I feel like I should like it, but the elements just haven't come together for me. The sexism and resistance she meets with at work is a major part of her character arc and effects her deeply, but is constantly played for laughs. And every thug is a mook, incompetent to unbelievable degrees. The 40's setting comes off like a parody of 1940s Hollywood... Not a tribute or homage, a parody.
The you have scenes like the one with Howard Stark coming out of the girl's room covered in perfect lipstick kisses like its a cartoon. Not to mention that having a scene like that implies a. That Howard got out of the dumb waiter and this sex crazed nymph was like "a m-m-m-man!" Or b. He knocked on her door and was able to seduce her and get busy in less than 5 minutes. Either way, having this landlady represent a different aspect of sexism, then prove her to be correct seems undermining for a lame joke.
The A-plot is ok, but tonally all of the character building moments miss the mark for me. Some times by a lot. With the exception of the scene at the end of the previous episode where Peggy is trying to process the death of a colleague she disliked intensely. I thought that scene did more to illustrate what kind of person she is than the rest of the show combined.
Like many things in the world of comics, there tend to be varying degrees of satisfaction with the final product, artwork, style, or storytelling. I prefer to think that we simply have varying opinions on this series. There are plenty of titles heralded by people on these forums and the podcast that just have never clicked for me; I'm not into Lego's or the toys, I'm not into Doctor Who, and I don't read My Little Pony or Green Lantern, but that doesn't make their praises invalid to me. Just don't care for those titles.
This is true. It's not working for me but I don't begrudge those who it is working for. I guess the disappointment comes from the fact that I wanted it to work for me. I can't speak for you @bralinator but something tells me there wasn't a point where you were setting the DVR for the premiere of My Little Pony, having been a fan of other pony related things only to find that it wasn't working for you.
This is true. It's not working for me but I don't begrudge those who it is working for. I guess the disappointment comes from the fact that I wanted it to work for me. I can't speak for you @bralinator but something tells me there wasn't a point where you were setting the DVR for the premiere of My Little Pony, having been a fan of other pony related things only to find that it wasn't working for you.
Nope. Never a Pony fan for sure, but I've been sorely disappointed in things I had my hopes up for. This is sort of how I felt when Agents of SHIELD came out. The first few episodes were SO disappointing. I felt like an outsider at times. It redeemed itself, but I dont think Agent Carter will have the time to redeem itself where you're concerned. That's too bad.
It's weird. I feel like I should like it, but the elements just haven't come together for me. The sexism and resistance she meets with at work is a major part of her character arc and effects her deeply, but is constantly played for laughs. And every thug is a mook, incompetent to unbelievable degrees. The 40's setting comes off like a parody of 1940s Hollywood... Not a tribute or homage, a parody.
The you have scenes like the one with Howard Stark coming out of the girl's room covered in perfect lipstick kisses like its a cartoon. Not to mention that having a scene like that implies a. That Howard got out of the dumb waiter and this sex crazed nymph was like "a m-m-m-man!" Or b. He knocked on her door and was able to seduce her and get busy in less than 5 minutes. Either way, having this landlady represent a different aspect of sexism, then prove her to be correct seems undermining for a lame joke.
The A-plot is ok, but tonally all of the character building moments miss the mark for me. Some times by a lot. With the exception of the scene at the end of the previous episode where Peggy is trying to process the death of a colleague she disliked intensely. I thought that scene did more to illustrate what kind of person she is than the rest of the show combined.
I don't see the sexism as being played for “ha-ha” laughs, but as sarcasm and irony. Perhaps they hit on it a bit too often, and I’d like to see a bit more subtlety in how they handle it at times, but I don't see them being flippant about it in any way.
And I don’t see the thugs as parody either. For me it makes the show feel a bit closer to the Golden Age comics, where the mastermind was an evil genius and his henchmen were only useful for their muscle. That’s actually part of the appeal of the show for me. This show feels the most comic-booky to me of all the shows.
As for the Howard Stark scenes, I would have left it with the first incident of him in the girl's room after getting out of the dumbwaiter. That second scene with him coming out covered in lipstick was a bit over the top, not to mention redundant. I don't have a problem with the house mother side of it, because that's exactly how those women's apartment houses were run at the time. I've read about them in biographies of Grace Kelly, Sylvia Plath, etc., and from all accounts, men sneaking into those buildings was not uncommon.
I agree with you that the scene with Peggy talking about the murder was the best scene of the episode.
Granted, Agent Carter isn't Mad Men, but it really does feel like a true follow-up to Captain America: The First Avenger. It has the same earnest tone and the same old movie/period comic book sensibility.
I've been enjoying it. This is a period piece and I think they are doing a lot of things very right. I don't see the henchmen as parodies. They probably weren't all that educated and rely on their brawn as opposed to their brains so it seems to make sense to me. It feels very authentic with the times and it does feel like a natural follow-up to Captain America: The First Avenger when you are looking at it from Peggy's perspective. It's been a fun show and I hope this will lead to more fill-in seasons.
It felt like something out of a Hope & Crosby "road to" movie.
Could have done without the cameo at the end though.
I loved it. Cheese-o-rama-fest!
I would have been fine with it if they had just revealed his face and then cut away, but for me the way they did it felt forced, and just threw off the rhythm of the scene. If he's going to have a speaking part somewhere, I would much rather it be a line that’s going to be in the script regardless.
It felt like something out of a Hope & Crosby "road to" movie.
Could have done without the cameo at the end though.
I loved it. Cheese-o-rama-fest!
I would have been fine with it if they had just revealed his face and then cut away, but for me the way they did it felt forced, and just threw off the rhythm of the scene. If he's going to have a speaking part somewhere, I would much rather it be a line that’s going to be in the script regardless.
Disagree!
It's Stan Lee. Of coarse it's forced/shoehorned/cheesetastic. It's why we love him.
Even knowing now how much of a sham the whole "Stan Lee Presents" aspect of Marvel Comics was after those first few years, his over-the-top hyper-huckster persona is such an integral aspect of the Marvel Experience for me, that his appearances are the Easter-eggiest of all Easter eggs.
I know the is the Ultimate Company Man, and will happily show up for anything someone pays him to show up for, but by God, the man IS comic books, and I just can't bring myself to hold his various sins, real or exaggerated, against him.
It's Stan Lee. Of coarse it's forced/shoehorned/cheesetastic. It's why we love him.
It's not the reason I love him. I love him for bringing an emotional touchstone aspect to comics, not for his bombasity.
I just don't like celebrity cameos in general when they throw off the storytelling. I would have much preferred a scene where the agents are looking through a book of mug shots, and then we see pics of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers (the Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos mainstay), and Jim Steranko. You get your Easter egg, you have your nod to history (beyond just Stan Lee, and maybe they see a little bit of that appearance money too), and you don't disrupt the story in the process.
It's Stan Lee. Of coarse it's forced/shoehorned/cheesetastic. It's why we love him.
It's not the reason I love him. I love him for bringing an emotional touchstone aspect to comics, not for his bombasity.
I just don't like celebrity cameos in general when they throw off the storytelling. I would have much preferred a scene where the agents are looking through a book of mug shots, and then we see pics of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers (the Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos mainstay), and Jim Steranko. You get your Easter egg, you have your nod to history (beyond just Stan Lee, and maybe they see a little bit of that appearance money too), and you don't disrupt the story in the process.
Maybe that's just me.
On an ideal level, I completely concur.
However, unfair as it is, there is really only one comic book creator that most folks will recognize.
Stan made himself the Face of Comic Books.
And the Voice.
Seeing that Face, hearing that Voice, provides a reminder that This Is Marvel in a way that no other face or voice can.
(Even I probably wouldn't recognize Dick Ayers' mug shot until you pointed it out. Kirby and Steranko, sure, they had/have bigger-than-life personas, Mr. Ayers, while probably (OK certainly) the nicest guy of the four, wasn't the same kind of self-promoter as the others, and Jack and Jim weren't even in Stan's league when it came to personifying the medium.)
I really like that the SSR Agents, sexist jerks they may be, are pretty competent. Plodding, perhaps, but they get the job done and Peggy is having to scramble to keep ahead of them.
Especially compared to the authority figures on the WB superhero shows, who are either completely helpless boobs or omniscient master schemers.
It's Stan Lee. Of coarse it's forced/shoehorned/cheesetastic. It's why we love him.
It's not the reason I love him. I love him for bringing an emotional touchstone aspect to comics, not for his bombasity.
I just don't like celebrity cameos in general when they throw off the storytelling. I would have much preferred a scene where the agents are looking through a book of mug shots, and then we see pics of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers (the Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos mainstay), and Jim Steranko. You get your Easter egg, you have your nod to history (beyond just Stan Lee, and maybe they see a little bit of that appearance money too), and you don't disrupt the story in the process.
Maybe that's just me.
On an ideal level, I completely concur.
However, unfair as it is, there is really only one comic book creator that most folks will recognize.
Stan made himself the Face of Comic Books.
And the Voice.
Seeing that Face, hearing that Voice, provides a reminder that This Is Marvel in a way that no other face or voice can.
(Even I probably wouldn't recognize Dick Ayers' mug shot until you pointed it out. Kirby and Steranko, sure, they had/have bigger-than-life personas, Mr. Ayers, while probably (OK certainly) the nicest guy of the four, wasn't the same kind of self-promoter as the others, and Jack and Jim weren't even in Stan's league when it came to personifying the medium.)
I don't disagree with any of that.
But imagine that scene of mugshots with the creators' real names underneath their pics. Some Easter egg hunters would surely look up those names, and some clickbait article would come out titled “Three Comic Book Creators You Didn't Know Appeared in Agent Carter,” etc., etc. If it happens often enough, maybe, just maybe, the general public—or at least some small portion of it—might come to realize there's more to Marvel than the characters and Stan Lee.
Naming a street after a creator is great and all, but putting a face to a name is another thing entirely. Stan Lee is that singular face because of the importance of his role in Marvel history, absolutely, and deservedly so, but also because he's the only face we ever see outside of a few DVD extras.
Every journey begins with a step, but you will never reach your destination if that first step is not taken.
Look, I'm not expecting Dick Ayers—or any other comic book creator—to ever become America’s sweetheart, or even recognize him on the street, but where's the harm in throwing him a bone? Who gives a shit whether anyone recognizes him in an episode or not? He'll recognize himself. If he gains an extra fan or two in the process, all the better.
But whether it's Dick Ayers or Stan Lee, do it in a way that's not going to disrupt the storytelling.
It's Stan Lee. Of coarse it's forced/shoehorned/cheesetastic. It's why we love him.
It's not the reason I love him. I love him for bringing an emotional touchstone aspect to comics, not for his bombasity.
I just don't like celebrity cameos in general when they throw off the storytelling. I would have much preferred a scene where the agents are looking through a book of mug shots, and then we see pics of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers (the Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos mainstay), and Jim Steranko. You get your Easter egg, you have your nod to history (beyond just Stan Lee, and maybe they see a little bit of that appearance money too), and you don't disrupt the story in the process.
Maybe that's just me.
On an ideal level, I completely concur.
However, unfair as it is, there is really only one comic book creator that most folks will recognize.
Stan made himself the Face of Comic Books.
And the Voice.
Seeing that Face, hearing that Voice, provides a reminder that This Is Marvel in a way that no other face or voice can.
(Even I probably wouldn't recognize Dick Ayers' mug shot until you pointed it out. Kirby and Steranko, sure, they had/have bigger-than-life personas, Mr. Ayers, while probably (OK certainly) the nicest guy of the four, wasn't the same kind of self-promoter as the others, and Jack and Jim weren't even in Stan's league when it came to personifying the medium.)
I don't disagree with any of that.
But imagine that scene of mugshots with the creators' real names underneath their pics. Some Easter egg hunters would surely look up those names, and some clickbait article would come out titled “Three Comic Book Creators You Didn't Know Appeared in Agent Carter,” etc., etc. If it happens often enough, maybe, just maybe, the general public—or at least some small portion of it—might come to realize there's more to Marvel than the characters and Stan Lee.
Naming a street after a creator is great and all, but putting a face to a name is another thing entirely. Stan Lee is that singular face because of the importance of his role in Marvel history, absolutely, and deservedly so, but also because he's the only face we ever see outside of a few DVD extras.
Every journey begins with a step, but you will never reach your destination if that first step is not taken.
Look, I'm not expecting Dick Ayers—or any other comic book creator—to ever become America’s sweetheart, or even recognize him on the street, but where's the harm in throwing him a bone? Who gives a shit whether anyone recognizes him in an episode or not? He'll recognize himself. If he gains an extra fan or two in the process, all the better.
But whether it's Dick Ayers or Stan Lee, do it in a way that's not going to disrupt the storytelling.
Would they have to pay for likeness rights if they did the mug shot thing?
It's Stan Lee. Of coarse it's forced/shoehorned/cheesetastic. It's why we love him.
It's not the reason I love him. I love him for bringing an emotional touchstone aspect to comics, not for his bombasity.
I just don't like celebrity cameos in general when they throw off the storytelling. I would have much preferred a scene where the agents are looking through a book of mug shots, and then we see pics of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers (the Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos mainstay), and Jim Steranko. You get your Easter egg, you have your nod to history (beyond just Stan Lee, and maybe they see a little bit of that appearance money too), and you don't disrupt the story in the process.
Maybe that's just me.
On an ideal level, I completely concur.
However, unfair as it is, there is really only one comic book creator that most folks will recognize.
Stan made himself the Face of Comic Books.
And the Voice.
Seeing that Face, hearing that Voice, provides a reminder that This Is Marvel in a way that no other face or voice can.
(Even I probably wouldn't recognize Dick Ayers' mug shot until you pointed it out. Kirby and Steranko, sure, they had/have bigger-than-life personas, Mr. Ayers, while probably (OK certainly) the nicest guy of the four, wasn't the same kind of self-promoter as the others, and Jack and Jim weren't even in Stan's league when it came to personifying the medium.)
I don't disagree with any of that.
But imagine that scene of mugshots with the creators' real names underneath their pics. Some Easter egg hunters would surely look up those names, and some clickbait article would come out titled “Three Comic Book Creators You Didn't Know Appeared in Agent Carter,” etc., etc. If it happens often enough, maybe, just maybe, the general public—or at least some small portion of it—might come to realize there's more to Marvel than the characters and Stan Lee.
Naming a street after a creator is great and all, but putting a face to a name is another thing entirely. Stan Lee is that singular face because of the importance of his role in Marvel history, absolutely, and deservedly so, but also because he's the only face we ever see outside of a few DVD extras.
Every journey begins with a step, but you will never reach your destination if that first step is not taken.
Look, I'm not expecting Dick Ayers—or any other comic book creator—to ever become America’s sweetheart, or even recognize him on the street, but where's the harm in throwing him a bone? Who gives a shit whether anyone recognizes him in an episode or not? He'll recognize himself. If he gains an extra fan or two in the process, all the better.
But whether it's Dick Ayers or Stan Lee, do it in a way that's not going to disrupt the storytelling.
Would they have to pay for likeness rights if they did the mug shot thing?
Yeah, but what's a couple hundred bucks to Hollywood? Besides, that would kind of be the point, to give these guys who didn't get a several-figure deal a little financial bonus.
The only possible snag I see is the Screen Actor's Guild, but I think they could work around that without too much trouble.
Agent Carter is an overall light-hearted/over-the-top espionage nostalgia show, so a Stan Lee cameo isn't a distraction or a deviation from the tone.
I'm not talking about tone. I'm talking about the storytelling. And the Batman cameos don't bother me—they felt like a natural, if not integral part of the show.
And maybe the teaser of the episode is partly to blame, but I knew Stan Lee was sitting in that last seat the whole time, and during what was otherwise one of the best scenes of the show, I was sitting there thinking, “When's Stan going to pop his head out and say something irrelevant to the story?”
Comments
And I don’t see the thugs as parody either. For me it makes the show feel a bit closer to the Golden Age comics, where the mastermind was an evil genius and his henchmen were only useful for their muscle. That’s actually part of the appeal of the show for me. This show feels the most comic-booky to me of all the shows.
As for the Howard Stark scenes, I would have left it with the first incident of him in the girl's room after getting out of the dumbwaiter. That second scene with him coming out covered in lipstick was a bit over the top, not to mention redundant. I don't have a problem with the house mother side of it, because that's exactly how those women's apartment houses were run at the time. I've read about them in biographies of Grace Kelly, Sylvia Plath, etc., and from all accounts, men sneaking into those buildings was not uncommon.
I agree with you that the scene with Peggy talking about the murder was the best scene of the episode.
that's cool
It felt like something out of a Hope & Crosby "road to" movie.
It's Stan Lee. Of coarse it's forced/shoehorned/cheesetastic. It's why we love him.
WHEN VERBS THE NOUN!
Even knowing now how much of a sham the whole "Stan Lee Presents" aspect of Marvel Comics was after those first few years, his over-the-top hyper-huckster persona is such an integral aspect of the Marvel Experience for me, that his appearances are the Easter-eggiest of all Easter eggs.
I know the is the Ultimate Company Man, and will happily show up for anything someone pays him to show up for, but by God, the man IS comic books, and I just can't bring myself to hold his various sins, real or exaggerated, against him.
I just don't like celebrity cameos in general when they throw off the storytelling. I would have much preferred a scene where the agents are looking through a book of mug shots, and then we see pics of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers (the Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos mainstay), and Jim Steranko. You get your Easter egg, you have your nod to history (beyond just Stan Lee, and maybe they see a little bit of that appearance money too), and you don't disrupt the story in the process.
Maybe that's just me.
However, unfair as it is, there is really only one comic book creator that most folks will recognize.
Stan made himself the Face of Comic Books.
And the Voice.
Seeing that Face, hearing that Voice, provides a reminder that This Is Marvel in a way that no other face or voice can.
(Even I probably wouldn't recognize Dick Ayers' mug shot until you pointed it out. Kirby and Steranko, sure, they had/have bigger-than-life personas, Mr. Ayers, while probably (OK certainly) the nicest guy of the four, wasn't the same kind of self-promoter as the others, and Jack and Jim weren't even in Stan's league when it came to personifying the medium.)
Especially compared to the authority figures on the WB superhero shows, who are either completely helpless boobs or omniscient master schemers.
But imagine that scene of mugshots with the creators' real names underneath their pics. Some Easter egg hunters would surely look up those names, and some clickbait article would come out titled “Three Comic Book Creators You Didn't Know Appeared in Agent Carter,” etc., etc. If it happens often enough, maybe, just maybe, the general public—or at least some small portion of it—might come to realize there's more to Marvel than the characters and Stan Lee.
Naming a street after a creator is great and all, but putting a face to a name is another thing entirely. Stan Lee is that singular face because of the importance of his role in Marvel history, absolutely, and deservedly so, but also because he's the only face we ever see outside of a few DVD extras.
Every journey begins with a step, but you will never reach your destination if that first step is not taken.
Look, I'm not expecting Dick Ayers—or any other comic book creator—to ever become America’s sweetheart, or even recognize him on the street, but where's the harm in throwing him a bone? Who gives a shit whether anyone recognizes him in an episode or not? He'll recognize himself. If he gains an extra fan or two in the process, all the better.
But whether it's Dick Ayers or Stan Lee, do it in a way that's not going to disrupt the storytelling.
No luck.
The form listed Stark's age as 51, and his occupation as "Shipwright", BTW.
The names were in a different typeface, and had been pretty clearly Photoshopped into a copy of a period manifest.
Yes, I am that dork.
The only possible snag I see is the Screen Actor's Guild, but I think they could work around that without too much trouble.
I have no problem with something like this, would be thrilled in fact, but I still get tickled by seeing the big ham be a big ham, too.
M
And maybe the teaser of the episode is partly to blame, but I knew Stan Lee was sitting in that last seat the whole time, and during what was otherwise one of the best scenes of the show, I was sitting there thinking, “When's Stan going to pop his head out and say something irrelevant to the story?”
:D