The last episode, I sat there, dreading, thinking, wow, if possible, they are going to make this worse than when it appeared in the comics. And, don't get me wrong - they teetered really close... but, in the end, they didn't go as far as the comics went.
And I was really, really thankful.
I don't think they needed to go quite as far as they did. They have already established the Governor pretty well as a sadistic ball of insanity. Like I said, though, they stopped short of losing me as a member of the audience.
I tend to agree on the cliffhanger point, @dubbat138. I think we'll get a cliffhanger in Woodbury of Rick's commando group being caught by the Gov, and in the prison, with the revelation that Axel is playing the role of Thomas from the comics, as Carl walks in and sees either Beth or Carol's head on the floor at his feet.
I tend to agree on the cliffhanger point, @dubbat138. I think we'll get a cliffhanger in Woodbury of Rick's commando group being caught by the Gov, and in the prison, with the revelation that Axel is playing the role of Thomas from the comics, as Carl walks in and sees either Beth or Carol's head on the floor at his feet.
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I hope they don't kill Carol. She is really developing into an interesting character. Beth on the other hand just screams Zombie bait.
I don't mind the cop-out because the rape in the comic really felt wrong to me. Not in a "the villain is doing something evil" but in a "why does there always have to a scene where the strong female character is raped to show what a bastard the bad guy is" way.
The Walking Dead mid-season finale was scary w/ an amp it up factor of about an 8 or 9. A new group of survivors, Michonne gets some payback on the Gov. on multiple levels. The Gov.'s kid looks horrible as a zombie. Will Rick's group return to the prison? Will the brothers get out of the jam there are in? In about two months for these answers & more tune in to the Dukes of Hazzard, I meant The Walking Dead. Now tv will be pretty dull until the big college football bowls start up.
From the Talking Dead program Chris announced the return date for Walking Dead to be Sunday, February 10th, 2013. In case you were wondering it is one week AFTER the Super Bowl.
it was good, but I'm still not sold on the govener and Andrea's relationship. it feels forced and that it is a plot device. Let's think about this, Andrea and Michonne have had 6 or so months together , just the 2 of them and she picks Philip over her at that moment? Really? Like she didn't smell what was in the kitchen this whole time? The show is just not convincing on her character choices, I dont buy it that a sane person would stick with him after seeing all of that. Knowing that Michonne is trustworthy and has protected Andrea in the past, shes' GOT to have some LOYALTY towards Michonne. I feel like it's all a fake set-up to create tension for future episodes, and that is called weak writing.
I don't think it feels forced. I mean, that kind of stuff happens all the time in real life. Everyone has to know a couple of people, male or female, who have been involved with someone who was shady. And even though they've only known that person for a short period of time, they will constantly take that person's side over family and friends they've known for years. Happens all the time.
This is like that, but more dire. It doesn't matter how much she trusts Michonne. If she wants to believe in this town and the Governor, that's what she's going to believe in. No matter what anyone says. Especially since she has been given no real reasons not to.
Sure, she's seen some weird stuff, but none of it is actually "evil" stuff. She hasn't seen anything that would make her believe the Governor and his co-horts aren't more or less on the up and up. Michonne just saying she has a bad feeling about the town and doesn't trust the Governor isn't really enough when what Andrea sees in the town is in stark contrast. It doesn't matter how much you trust someone, if they're telling you the exact opposite of what you believe to be true and without any proof, it's going to be pretty hard to just trust what they're saying. If that meant leaving a seemingly safe haven to go back out in the world where you're constantly facing death, that wouldn't really be a choice.
It works for me. I honestly can't see it as weak writing.
I thought it was solid - but I was a bit let done. First, I thought it was action packed - I loved the Michonne/Governor faceoff. I loved the intro to Tyreese and Carl's interaction with the new group of redshir...er...survivors. I loved the "You're not a lesbian? well helloooo darlin'!" I loved seeing Glenn continue to be a kick-ass survivor with his walker bone/knife idea. I loved the Shane reappearance. The episode moved fast. It was exciting.
OTOH, I thought they blunted the motivations here and the "plan" for breaking out of Woodbury was ridiculous and the whole Andrea thing is a bit of a mess. First, in the comic, motivations made perfect sense: Gov captures Michonne. Michonne bites of Gov's ear. Gov tortures Michonne. Michonne tortures Gov. Gov wants revenge on Michonne and Rick's Prison gang.
Here, it's a lot fuzzier. that's not necessarily bad - in fact it could turn out to be better, but for now it blunted the drama for me a bit. Michonne seems to be on a vendetta against the Gov - but why? Because he sent Merle to kill her after she left Woodbury? B/c Merle kidnapped Maggie/Glenn? She doesn't know any of the really bad Gov stuff - she suspects (ex. the soldiers) but doesn't really know. She certainly doesn't know about the Maggie rape threat. OTOH, perhaps there's some more nuanced stuff going on here. Perhaps on some level her hate for the Gov is b/c the Gov stole her friend Andrea away from her. Some homoerotic/jealousy undertones perhaps? Or perhaps its part of a need to prove herself to Rick to get into the gang and stop being a loner. I loved her last exchange with rick where she's almost desperately trying to convince him that he needs her. Kirkman mentioned in the Talking Dead that the original screenplay even had her saying "please" - but they took it out as overkill. That's some good stuff. B/c overall you need to give Michonne a motivation for risking her life just to kill the Gov. In fact, her killing of Penny seemed almost sadistic in a way - b/c the Gov seemed so pitiful there and she crushed him with that kill. Why would she be so malicious to him? Why would she hate him so? It seemed a little out of proportion to me. And it also makes the TV show come off as a little bit of comic-lite. Instead of brutalization of Michonne by the Gov and an epic revenge (including eye-gouge), we get a threatened rape last week and a quick fight (including eye gouge). So definitely seems the show is not going to hit the intensity of the comic.
I also thought the whole fight/escape at the end was a little senseless. Rick's "plan" is to just storm the wall? Bullets are flying everywhere and only Oscar dies (Hello Oscar, Goodbye T-Dog. Hello Tyreese, Goodbye Oscar. African-american males (and Highlanders: there can only be one!)?? Really? And WTF w/Andrea?? She aims and shoots about 5 guys in the fight. But only Oscar is dead? Whoe were the other 4 guys she killed? Or were those all misses?? And she never sees Rick or any of those guys?? Really??? And Michonne never tells Rick about andrea even when they're there?? (perhaps this goes back to her jealousy of the Gov: Andrea betrayed her/spurned her - so screw Andrea! She's on her own!). It's was too convenient.
And then Daryl is caught (offscreen!). Again, too convenient. And I think it's almost painfully clear that the whole "Merle is a traitor" thing is a sham. Merle and Daryle will escape together, and Merle will be the Gov's mole at the Prison. (in fact, wasn't the Gov talkign about getting a mole into the prison group earlier in the ep??).
So overall, I liked the finale - and it might be better than my initial take - probably need to let it sink in a bit - but it definitely seems not as good as the comic to me.
I'm getting a little tired of seeing one black male cast member killed off in exchange for a new one. I'm not saying any character should be off limits due to their race, gender, etc, but it's been pretty blatant this season.
By the end of the episode, my impression of Andrea is that her attraction to the Governor is turning into fear over what might happen if she tries to leave. However, some of the previews make it look like she's still involved with him. Maybe it's for show, but if she's still aligned with him next year, I'll have a hard time buying it.
Overall, it was a decent episode, but didn't quite have the punch I expected for a mid-season finale.
Well my prediction for last night's episode was totally wrong. I had a strong feeling Beth was gonna die.
I'm sure she will be zombie bait again soon enough.
I also liked the Highlander/black male comparison by Lenny because it so right on the money. Oh how I miss Highlander on USA network. Thanks for everyone's refections on last night's episode.
I'm getting a little tired of seeing one black male cast member killed off in exchange for a new one. I'm not saying any character should be off limits due to their race, gender, etc, but it's been pretty blatant this season.
By the end of the episode, my impression of Andrea is that her attraction to the Governor is turning into fear over what might happen if she tries to leave. However, some of the previews make it look like she's still involved with him. Maybe it's for show, but if she's still aligned with him next year, I'll have a hard time buying it.
Overall, it was a decent episode, but didn't quite have the punch I expected for a mid-season finale.
Well maybe is Andrea is staying w/ the Gov. as the man of power (cough previously Shane) but also a primal one. A nookie partner, get your ever lovin' flying freak on w/ & share the bed w/ at night. The show is divided into pairs; this one is related to this person or is getting sex from them then.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye!
Predictions for second half of the season: Merle and Daryl escape, somehow. Daryl will end up Killing Merle. Andrea will finally come to her senses and return to the group.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye!
Predictions for second half of the season: Merle and Daryl escape, somehow. Daryl will end up Killing Merle. Andrea will finally come to her senses and return to the group.
Yeah, I really don't see how they can redeem Merle enough to rejoin the group on anything but a temporary basis. Which makes me think ctowner1's theory is correct, that Merle will end up being a traitor.
I'm getting a little tired of seeing one black male cast member killed off in exchange for a new one. I'm not saying any character should be off limits due to their race, gender, etc, but it's been pretty blatant this season
Actually, sure we lost one black male character, but we got back a black male AND a black female character. Women count these days, you know! lol So it's more of an anti-male move, than an anti-black move!
I'm getting a little tired of seeing one black male cast member killed off in exchange for a new one. I'm not saying any character should be off limits due to their race, gender, etc, but it's been pretty blatant this season
Actually, sure we lost one black male character, but we got back a black male AND a black female character. Women count these days, you know! lol So it's more of an anti-male move, than an anti-black move!
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Yeah, but she looks like zombie bait to me. I have a feeling only Tyreese we'll be surviving out of that group.
Yeah, but she looks like zombie bait to me. I have a feeling only Tyreese we'll be surviving out of that group.
Well, hard to argue on that point, @chrisw. I tend to agree - especially b/c Tyreese is in the comic and she is not (unless she's his daughter in which case...I'd better stop talking right now! lol)! OTOH, its not like they're excluding black comic characters, right? And isn't the Dr. in Woodbury a black woman (replacing an older white guy from the comic).
Ha! Lost-itis. I love that. I used to get frustrated with that in Lost, much as I love that show. I always felt like, if I were in the world on that show, I would be the one person to just say, "NO! You are going to take a MINUTE to EXPLAIN THIS TO ME before I do what you want me to do!"
yeah, it is just so different from the comic. she is a lawyer for crying out loud she knows how to be articulate. I think the series is just Clint Eastwooding her too much. and honestly, her irrational hatred toward the govenor doesn't make sense outside of the comic context. they have the character respoinding as if she is dealing with the comic book governor even though the tv version hasn't committed those sins yet. don;t get me wrong he's creepy, aaand he send a hit squad to kill her but...thats about it. i would even go so far to say that *spoiler* by having Michone stab Penny in the face they have made her more blatantly villanous then the govenor. he has reasion to be psycotically pissed. they are making him overly sympathetic and her less so. not digging it.
A lot of fans are getting antsy about Daryl. Over the course of the series, we've seen the role of Tyreese be split between T-Dog and Daryl, who are characters created for the show. Tyreese was a big black guy who served as Rick's second-in-command and he showed up early on in the story. Fans eventually assumed the character would never show up and those 2 characters were based on him or stand ins, as T-Dog was a big black guy and Daryl eventually became Rick's second-in-command.
Now, we actually have Tyreese on the show, and with already T-Dog gone, things may be looking a bit grim for Daryl. Unless they change their interpretation of Tyreese, he would fill the role previously filled by Daryl.
And then you have the fact that since this is a zombie show and we're nearing the finale, some main characters are definitely going to be killed. You look at the Governor, who is the season's antagonist, but he's yet to kill any of our characters. In any movie/TV show where there's a villain, he has to always kill one or more main characters to convey how much of a threat he is or how dire the situation is. And at least one of them has to be someone who's vital to the group's survival. That death would be something that would handicap the group and hamper their chances of survival. It would weaken the group.
Daryl seems to be the likely candidate. And seeing as how SPOILER: the Governor is responsible for Tyreese's death in the comics and it seems unlikely Tyreese is going to die this soon after being introduced they could very well use Daryl instead.
I do agree that Beth screams zombie bait, but I don't think her death would be a significant death. I mean, her presence doesn't really help the group, so her death wouldn't ultimately be that big a loss. Sure, they'd be sad, but it wouldn't weaken them. Not like Daryl.
While I would hate to see this character go, it would make for a killer finale if that's how it played out. Especially because the average viewer would not be expecting it.
I totally agree @tazmaniak - the question is whether the show will have the guts to do it. It was a great shock in the comic - and it would be the same on the show.
yeah, it is just so different from the comic. she is a lawyer for crying out loud she knows how to be articulate. I think the series is just Clint Eastwooding her too much.
Well, it's not like she's a chatterbox in the comics, either. I do agree though that she's been a bit circumspect - at a minimum, she should have mentioned to them that Andrea was there!
and honestly, her irrational hatred toward the govenor doesn't make sense outside of the comic context. they have the character respoinding as if she is dealing with the comic book governor even though the tv version hasn't committed those sins yet. don;t get me wrong he's creepy, aaand he send a hit squad to kill her but...thats about it. i would even go so far to say that *spoiler* by having Michone stab Penny in the face they have made her more blatantly villanous then the govenor. he has reasion to be psycotically pissed. they are making him overly sympathetic and her less so. not digging it.
yah...this bugged me a bit, too. I think perhaps she was more jealous of the Gov taking andrea away from her than she let on. either that, or she was REALLY pissed off that he dared to touch her katana!! lol
The show has been renewed for a 4th season, unfortunately, Glen Mazzara will not be returning as showrunner. Both AMC and Mazzara acknowledge that there is a difference of opinion about where the show should go and it was best to part ways.
What's going on at AMC? First, Frank Darabont "leaves" The Walking Dead last year. In October, Hell on Wheels lost it's 2 creators and executive producers, Joe and Tony Gayton, when their contracts were not renewed by the network. In November, Hell on Wheels also lost it's showrunner, John Shiban, who decided he didn't want to continue with the show.
Now, AMC has lost another showrunner. And due to differences of opinion? What? If a showrunner elevates your cable series to the position of being the highest rated show on TV, something that no other cable series has done in the history of television, one would think you'd let him steer the ship creatively and go along with whatever he wants to do. Wouldn't you?
With all these problems and rumors that creative talents are no longer eager to work with the network, I think AMC might implode.
Comments
The last episode, I sat there, dreading, thinking, wow, if possible, they are going to make this worse than when it appeared in the comics. And, don't get me wrong - they teetered really close... but, in the end, they didn't go as far as the comics went.
And I was really, really thankful.
I don't think they needed to go quite as far as they did. They have already established the Governor pretty well as a sadistic ball of insanity. Like I said, though, they stopped short of losing me as a member of the audience.
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:-\"
Matthew
Matthew
This is like that, but more dire. It doesn't matter how much she trusts Michonne. If she wants to believe in this town and the Governor, that's what she's going to believe in. No matter what anyone says. Especially since she has been given no real reasons not to.
Sure, she's seen some weird stuff, but none of it is actually "evil" stuff. She hasn't seen anything that would make her believe the Governor and his co-horts aren't more or less on the up and up. Michonne just saying she has a bad feeling about the town and doesn't trust the Governor isn't really enough when what Andrea sees in the town is in stark contrast. It doesn't matter how much you trust someone, if they're telling you the exact opposite of what you believe to be true and without any proof, it's going to be pretty hard to just trust what they're saying. If that meant leaving a seemingly safe haven to go back out in the world where you're constantly facing death, that wouldn't really be a choice.
It works for me. I honestly can't see it as weak writing.
OTOH, I thought they blunted the motivations here and the "plan" for breaking out of Woodbury was ridiculous and the whole Andrea thing is a bit of a mess. First, in the comic, motivations made perfect sense: Gov captures Michonne. Michonne bites of Gov's ear. Gov tortures Michonne. Michonne tortures Gov. Gov wants revenge on Michonne and Rick's Prison gang.
Here, it's a lot fuzzier. that's not necessarily bad - in fact it could turn out to be better, but for now it blunted the drama for me a bit. Michonne seems to be on a vendetta against the Gov - but why? Because he sent Merle to kill her after she left Woodbury? B/c Merle kidnapped Maggie/Glenn? She doesn't know any of the really bad Gov stuff - she suspects (ex. the soldiers) but doesn't really know. She certainly doesn't know about the Maggie rape threat. OTOH, perhaps there's some more nuanced stuff going on here. Perhaps on some level her hate for the Gov is b/c the Gov stole her friend Andrea away from her. Some homoerotic/jealousy undertones perhaps? Or perhaps its part of a need to prove herself to Rick to get into the gang and stop being a loner. I loved her last exchange with rick where she's almost desperately trying to convince him that he needs her. Kirkman mentioned in the Talking Dead that the original screenplay even had her saying "please" - but they took it out as overkill. That's some good stuff. B/c overall you need to give Michonne a motivation for risking her life just to kill the Gov. In fact, her killing of Penny seemed almost sadistic in a way - b/c the Gov seemed so pitiful there and she crushed him with that kill. Why would she be so malicious to him? Why would she hate him so? It seemed a little out of proportion to me. And it also makes the TV show come off as a little bit of comic-lite. Instead of brutalization of Michonne by the Gov and an epic revenge (including eye-gouge), we get a threatened rape last week and a quick fight (including eye gouge). So definitely seems the show is not going to hit the intensity of the comic.
I also thought the whole fight/escape at the end was a little senseless. Rick's "plan" is to just storm the wall? Bullets are flying everywhere and only Oscar dies (Hello Oscar, Goodbye T-Dog. Hello Tyreese, Goodbye Oscar. African-american males (and Highlanders: there can only be one!)?? Really? And WTF w/Andrea?? She aims and shoots about 5 guys in the fight. But only Oscar is dead? Whoe were the other 4 guys she killed? Or were those all misses?? And she never sees Rick or any of those guys?? Really??? And Michonne never tells Rick about andrea even when they're there?? (perhaps this goes back to her jealousy of the Gov: Andrea betrayed her/spurned her - so screw Andrea! She's on her own!). It's was too convenient.
And then Daryl is caught (offscreen!). Again, too convenient. And I think it's almost painfully clear that the whole "Merle is a traitor" thing is a sham. Merle and Daryle will escape together, and Merle will be the Gov's mole at the Prison. (in fact, wasn't the Gov talkign about getting a mole into the prison group earlier in the ep??).
So overall, I liked the finale - and it might be better than my initial take - probably need to let it sink in a bit - but it definitely seems not as good as the comic to me.
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By the end of the episode, my impression of Andrea is that her attraction to the Governor is turning into fear over what might happen if she tries to leave. However, some of the previews make it look like she's still involved with him. Maybe it's for show, but if she's still aligned with him next year, I'll have a hard time buying it.
Overall, it was a decent episode, but didn't quite have the punch I expected for a mid-season finale.
I also liked the Highlander/black male comparison by Lenny because it so right on the money. Oh how I miss Highlander on USA network. Thanks for everyone's refections on last night's episode.
Matthew
Well that is my 10 cents on that topic.
Matthew
Predictions for second half of the season: Merle and Daryl escape, somehow. Daryl will end up Killing Merle. Andrea will finally come to her senses and return to the group.
wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/2012/12/on-walking-deads-mid-season-finale-in.html
Wouldn't say i agree with everything (or even most) of the article - but it gets you thinking.
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http://www.rpsteeves.com/2012/12/wrapped-up-like-zombie-review-walking_5.html
I see Michonne has a full-blown case of Lost-itis, the symptoms are an inability to volunteer important information to other characters.
Now, we actually have Tyreese on the show, and with already T-Dog gone, things may be looking a bit grim for Daryl. Unless they change their interpretation of Tyreese, he would fill the role previously filled by Daryl.
And then you have the fact that since this is a zombie show and we're nearing the finale, some main characters are definitely going to be killed. You look at the Governor, who is the season's antagonist, but he's yet to kill any of our characters. In any movie/TV show where there's a villain, he has to always kill one or more main characters to convey how much of a threat he is or how dire the situation is. And at least one of them has to be someone who's vital to the group's survival. That death would be something that would handicap the group and hamper their chances of survival. It would weaken the group.
Daryl seems to be the likely candidate. And seeing as how SPOILER: the Governor is responsible for Tyreese's death in the comics and it seems unlikely Tyreese is going to die this soon after being introduced they could very well use Daryl instead.
I do agree that Beth screams zombie bait, but I don't think her death would be a significant death. I mean, her presence doesn't really help the group, so her death wouldn't ultimately be that big a loss. Sure, they'd be sad, but it wouldn't weaken them. Not like Daryl.
While I would hate to see this character go, it would make for a killer finale if that's how it played out. Especially because the average viewer would not be expecting it.
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Deadline
What's going on at AMC? First, Frank Darabont "leaves" The Walking Dead last year. In October, Hell on Wheels lost it's 2 creators and executive producers, Joe and Tony Gayton, when their contracts were not renewed by the network. In November, Hell on Wheels also lost it's showrunner, John Shiban, who decided he didn't want to continue with the show.
Now, AMC has lost another showrunner. And due to differences of opinion? What? If a showrunner elevates your cable series to the position of being the highest rated show on TV, something that no other cable series has done in the history of television, one would think you'd let him steer the ship creatively and go along with whatever he wants to do. Wouldn't you?
With all these problems and rumors that creative talents are no longer eager to work with the network, I think AMC might implode.