CONTINUING SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC
I don't think they kill Judith. I think killing a baby is something you can (barely) do in a comic that you can't do on cable. Not even on AMC. I think that would be a red line that the network wouldn't cross even if the show's creators wanted to. And there would be something even worse, in a way, of Judith dying separately from Lori than with her. I think the fact that they killed Lori to deliver Judith meant that Judith will continue to live. I could see, if they didn't want to have to keep dealing with occasional scenes with a baby in them, that maybe at some point a character takes Judith and leaves the group, something like that. But I just don't imagine them actually killing her. I feel like that might be too big of an ask of the audience. But I guess we'll see.
You're probably right - the way they "handled" the comic's rape/torture of Michonne definitely backs you up on this. And the scene in the comic remains for me the single most shocking thing I've ever read in a comic book. I guess I'm predicting it will happen, in part b/c I want it to happen. Not that I have anything about babies, but it would really show that this is a bold show that willing to take chances - and that's the kind of show I would like to see.
It's hard to see though that Rick would allow his daughter to be kept by someone while he went elsewhere. If there was a place that was safe, then why wouldn't he stay there himself w/Carl and the others. So really seems to me the 2 choices are kill the lil asskicker or grin and bear an infant on the show.
Here's my view of what's going to happen in light of the comic. WARNING: CONTAINS FULL SPOILERS FOR COMIC THROUGH AROUND ISSUE 78 or SO!!)
But the more I think about it, the more I think they will kill Andrea. First, b/c the entire internet hates her. Second, b/c the way they would do it is to have Andrea finally get up her nerve to kill the Gov, but this time, when she tries, he's onto her (he already seems to distrust her at the end of the recent ep). So she will try, fail, and Gov will behead her at the prison gates. . . . So the assassination attempt by Andrea followed by her beheading at the prison makes sense.
Last night: Andrea tries and fails to kill the Gov (altho it wasn't b/c he was on to her). When it looked like she was going to make it to the prison, I was a little worried. But now, as predicted, she's at the Gov's mercy, awaiting her execution.
Tyrese will end up joining Rick's group and play the role of Abe. Tyrese will defect to Ricks group after (a) Andrea lays the groundwork in telling him the Gov is bad; and (b) when the Gov beheads Andrea, proving how evil he is.
e L nny
Last night: Andrea lays the groundwork. Check on (a) . It looked like Tyrese was going to leave right away, putting (b) at risk - but then he decides to stay. Right on target for (b)!
Here's my view of what's going to happen in light of the comic. WARNING: CONTAINS FULL SPOILERS FOR COMIC THROUGH AROUND ISSUE 78 or SO!!)
I would love to see Daryl get killed b/c it would be so friggin badass and show the show has balls approaching those of Kirkman when he killed off fan favorite Tyrese. I don't think it does so they won't.
If they do kill Daryl, then Andrea will kill the Gov. But the more I think about it, the more I think they will kill Andrea. First, b/c the entire internet hates her. Second, b/c the way they would do it is to have Andrea finally get up her nerve to kill the Gov, but this time, when she tries, he's onto her (he already seems to distrust her at the end of the recent ep). So she will try, fail, and Gov will behead her at the prison gates. I don't think there will be 2 more attacks (an initial one like in the comic, followed by a Michonne/Daryl commando mission, followed by a beheading/final attack). That's b/c we already had an attack. So I think the next attack will be the final one. So the assassination attempt by Andrea followed by her beheading at the prison makes sense.
There had better the fuck be SOME beheading or this show is a douche!
Herschel will NOT die b/c he's Dale, so he has to survive in order to be eaten by the Hunters (tainted meat!!!).
Milton will kill Beth (playing Lori's role) and Judith on the Gov's orders. When he realizes what he has done, he'll be totally disgusted, just like the woman in the comic was, and Milton will kill the Gov. And then he'll join Rick's group, assuming the role of Eugene.
Tyrese will end up joining Rick's group and play the role of Abe. Tyrese will defect to Ricks group after (a) Andrea lays the groundwork in telling him the Gov is bad; and (b) when the Gov beheads Andrea, proving how evil he is. (Possibility: Tyrese kills Beth and Judith and then, disgusted, kills the Gov--establishing his badass cred-- and defects to Rick's group).
Carol dies- I agree. But if she doesn't, then she takes over Andrea's role in the comic as the sharpshooter.
Morgan is a question. I will HATE it if they kill him b/c I like him so much. Lennie James just signed up to do a detective type show, so its possible they'll feel free to kill him. My desire is he join the regular cast. So I'm really hoping they don't kill him. I DO think he'll show up in the final battle with the Gov as a last minute cavalry to help out. And they might kill him then.
Glen and Maggie live. If Carol dies (very likely) them Maggie will take over Andrea's role of sharpshooter.
Merle is a tough one. I think there's a chance he dies. Or kills the Gov. Or is beheaded. My initial guess was he lives and redeems himself by doing something heroic to save Daryl's life. Now I'm thinking there's a good chance that he's a mole for the Gov (or will be willing to flip back to the Gov offered the right incentive). If he is, then Daryl will definitely kill him, choosing the group over his traitorous brother. Actually, now that I think of it, I think Merle will kill Carol, and then Daryl will kill Merle. That works on all the right emotional points.
Michonne definitely lives. She's too badass to kill. If Andrea is killed, however, its unclear how it will be with Michonne's katana. Hmm. Now that I think of it, I think Michonne will try a solo attack on the Gov and lose her katana so that the Gov can then use it...yes!...the Gov will use it to behead Andrea first in front of Michonne to torture Michonne! Definitely! Then Michonne will get free (perhaps this is where Merle dies, saving Michonne? Doubtful).
So best guess summary: Andrea beheaded with katana, Daryl kills Merle the traitor after Merle kills Carol, Beth and Judith are killed by Milton. Milton kills Gov. Herschel, Michonne, Daryl, Rick, Carl, Glen, Maggie, Milton, Tyrese all live.
I think that covers it all. Thoughts?
e L nny
Wow. That was like watching a one-man writer's room.
CONTINUING SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC
I don't think they kill Judith. I think killing a baby is something you can (barely) do in a comic that you can't do on cable. Not even on AMC. I think that would be a red line that the network wouldn't cross even if the show's creators wanted to. And there would be something even worse, in a way, of Judith dying separately from Lori than with her. I think the fact that they killed Lori to deliver Judith meant that Judith will continue to live. I could see, if they didn't want to have to keep dealing with occasional scenes with a baby in them, that maybe at some point a character takes Judith and leaves the group, something like that. But I just don't imagine them actually killing her. I feel like that might be too big of an ask of the audience. But I guess we'll see.
Granted, it was only a one-off extra, but they did exactly this to establish the character of Six in the BSG miniseries.
Here's my view of what's going to happen in light of the comic. WARNING: CONTAINS FULL SPOILERS FOR COMIC THROUGH AROUND ISSUE 78 or SO!!)
I would love to see Daryl get killed b/c it would be so friggin badass and show the show has balls approaching those of Kirkman when he killed off fan favorite Tyrese. I don't think it does so they won't.
If they do kill Daryl, then Andrea will kill the Gov. But the more I think about it, the more I think they will kill Andrea. First, b/c the entire internet hates her. Second, b/c the way they would do it is to have Andrea finally get up her nerve to kill the Gov, but this time, when she tries, he's onto her (he already seems to distrust her at the end of the recent ep). So she will try, fail, and Gov will behead her at the prison gates. I don't think there will be 2 more attacks (an initial one like in the comic, followed by a Michonne/Daryl commando mission, followed by a beheading/final attack). That's b/c we already had an attack. So I think the next attack will be the final one. So the assassination attempt by Andrea followed by her beheading at the prison makes sense.
There had better the fuck be SOME beheading or this show is a douche!
Herschel will NOT die b/c he's Dale, so he has to survive in order to be eaten by the Hunters (tainted meat!!!).
Milton will kill Beth (playing Lori's role) and Judith on the Gov's orders. When he realizes what he has done, he'll be totally disgusted, just like the woman in the comic was, and Milton will kill the Gov. And then he'll join Rick's group, assuming the role of Eugene.
Tyrese will end up joining Rick's group and play the role of Abe. Tyrese will defect to Ricks group after (a) Andrea lays the groundwork in telling him the Gov is bad; and (b) when the Gov beheads Andrea, proving how evil he is. (Possibility: Tyrese kills Beth and Judith and then, disgusted, kills the Gov--establishing his badass cred-- and defects to Rick's group).
Carol dies- I agree. But if she doesn't, then she takes over Andrea's role in the comic as the sharpshooter.
Morgan is a question. I will HATE it if they kill him b/c I like him so much. Lennie James just signed up to do a detective type show, so its possible they'll feel free to kill him. My desire is he join the regular cast. So I'm really hoping they don't kill him. I DO think he'll show up in the final battle with the Gov as a last minute cavalry to help out. And they might kill him then.
Glen and Maggie live. If Carol dies (very likely) them Maggie will take over Andrea's role of sharpshooter.
Merle is a tough one. I think there's a chance he dies. Or kills the Gov. Or is beheaded. My initial guess was he lives and redeems himself by doing something heroic to save Daryl's life. Now I'm thinking there's a good chance that he's a mole for the Gov (or will be willing to flip back to the Gov offered the right incentive). If he is, then Daryl will definitely kill him, choosing the group over his traitorous brother. Actually, now that I think of it, I think Merle will kill Carol, and then Daryl will kill Merle. That works on all the right emotional points.
Michonne definitely lives. She's too badass to kill. If Andrea is killed, however, its unclear how it will be with Michonne's katana. Hmm. Now that I think of it, I think Michonne will try a solo attack on the Gov and lose her katana so that the Gov can then use it...yes!...the Gov will use it to behead Andrea first in front of Michonne to torture Michonne! Definitely! Then Michonne will get free (perhaps this is where Merle dies, saving Michonne? Doubtful).
So best guess summary: Andrea beheaded with katana, Daryl kills Merle the traitor after Merle kills Carol, Beth and Judith are killed by Milton. Milton kills Gov. Herschel, Michonne, Daryl, Rick, Carl, Glen, Maggie, Milton, Tyrese all live.
I think that covers it all. Thoughts?
e L nny
Wow. That was like watching a one-man writer's room.
CONTINUING SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC
I don't think they kill Judith. I think killing a baby is something you can (barely) do in a comic that you can't do on cable. Not even on AMC. I think that would be a red line that the network wouldn't cross even if the show's creators wanted to. And there would be something even worse, in a way, of Judith dying separately from Lori than with her. I think the fact that they killed Lori to deliver Judith meant that Judith will continue to live. I could see, if they didn't want to have to keep dealing with occasional scenes with a baby in them, that maybe at some point a character takes Judith and leaves the group, something like that. But I just don't imagine them actually killing her. I feel like that might be too big of an ask of the audience. But I guess we'll see.
Granted, it was only a one-off extra, but they did exactly this to establish the character of Six in the BSG miniseries.
That's a good point, and definitely a shocking and transgressive moment.
But remember- we never actually saw that baby. There was just a stroller and a sound effect. Still creepy and I remember a very visceral shock when I saw that. But I would be very surprised if they were to kill a baby that is actually shown and established as a character.
But, we'll see. They might dare. It would certainly make for some water cooler talk and social media buzz.
I finally saw last Sunday night's episode ("Prey).
Ugh. I know not everything can be as good as "Clear" (the episode with Rick, Carl, and Michonne going back to Rick and Carl's town) but I thought "Prey" was terrible- we knew that Andrea wouldn't kill the Governor or vice versa, so what is the point of dragging it out this much? My only guess is an episode of a lot of drawn-out slasher movie cliche and not much event (and barely any of the principal cast) was a budget saver.
I also think the writers have done the Andrea character no favors this season. I'm not surprised 'the Internet hates her' as they say, there has just not been enough done to track her arc or justify her choices. Even starting out the episode with a flashback to her and Michonne's time in the woods only helped to build up Michonne's character (and pathos) and make it all that more damning that Andrea turned her back on her earlier in the season.
Similarly it felt like this was the episode where they remembered they had Tyresse and his group and scrambled to get back to them and try to remind the viewers why to care. Also, in a Woodbury short on bullets (and trust) why would Tyrese and Sasha be given guns, bullets, and a post on the wall? There are whole crowds of characters that have lived in Woodbury from the start. Were they just waiting for tougher-looking strangers to come along? Those are the sorts of expedient, nonsensical choices that have really started weakening this show (for me) as time has gone on. I feel like the lack of full-time writing staff and showrunner musical chair is starting to show.
Here's hoping they get back to form in the last two. And then (I only hope) get the hell away from Woodbury stories and on to other things.
I finally saw last Sunday night's episode ("Prey).
Ugh. I know not everything can be as good as "Clear" (the episode with Rick, Carl, and Michonne going back to Rick and Carl's town) but I thought "Prey" was terrible- we knew that Andrea wouldn't kill the Governor or vice versa, so what is the point of dragging it out this much? My only guess is an episode of a lot of drawn-out slasher movie cliche and not much event (and barely any of the principal cast) was a budget saver.
I also think the writers have done the Andrea character no favors this season. I'm not surprised 'the Internet hates her' as they say, there has just not been enough done to track her arc or justify her choices. Even starting out the episode with a flashback to her and Michonne's time in the woods only helped to build up Michonne's character (and pathos) and make it all that more damning that Andrea turned her back on her earlier in the season.
Similarly it felt like this was the episode where they remembered they had Tyresse and his group and scrambled to get back to them and try to remind the viewers why to care. Also, in a Woodbury short on bullets (and trust) why would Tyrese and Sasha be given guns, bullets, and a post on the wall? There are whole crowds of characters that have lived in Woodbury from the start. Were they just waiting for tougher-looking strangers to come along? Those are the sorts of expedient, nonsensical choices that have really started weakening this show (for me) as time has gone on. I feel like the lack of full-time writing staff and showrunner musical chair is starting to show.
Here's hoping they get back to form in the last two. And then (I only hope) get the hell away from Woodbury stories and on to other things.
Wow - I thought it was an exciting solid episode and was good for Andrea's character because she finally got her shit together and acted. Sure she wasn't going to die/kill the gov - but I thought the warehouse confrontation was still exciting - and while I wasn't surprised that the Gov survived, I was surprised when he popped up right outside the Prison. They've got this nice almost supernatural vibe going on the Gov that I'm liking.
I also liked the Tyrese stuff - I think we now have a pretty good idea what Tyrese is all about - and I don't think he's drinking the Gov's koolaid, despite his staying put for the short run. As to why they have been armed, they've made it clear that Woodbury is short on competent adult soldiers - so it makes sense they'd be armed. Are they really a danger to Woodbury given that they're are pretty outnumbered, otherwise?
Only 2 eps left - I'm psyched to see what happens next!
Wow. That was like watching a one-man writer's room.
CONTINUING SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC
I don't think they kill Judith. I think killing a baby is something you can (barely) do in a comic that you can't do on cable. Not even on AMC. I think that would be a red line that the network wouldn't cross even if the show's creators wanted to. And there would be something even worse, in a way, of Judith dying separately from Lori than with her. I think the fact that they killed Lori to deliver Judith meant that Judith will continue to live. I could see, if they didn't want to have to keep dealing with occasional scenes with a baby in them, that maybe at some point a character takes Judith and leaves the group, something like that. But I just don't imagine them actually killing her. I feel like that might be too big of an ask of the audience. But I guess we'll see.
They did it at least once on C.S.I., so they can do it here.
Well, last night's ep pretty much wiped out the bulk of my predictions! lol Doesn't look like an Andrea beheading by Michonne's katana is in the works. And Daryl isn't killing Merle after Merle kills Carol!
The Walking Dead (tv series) had it's aww romantic moment & a brother gotta do what a brother got do moment. #RIPMerle you are truly the major badass of the show.
A pretty good episode overall but as usual it was a slow buildup til the end of the episode.
Damn, they were starting to show him as human and then off him? Balls right there. This one reason why I love the show, no one is safe. Hell, I don't think I could be shocked if they offed Rick.
Andrea was the horny bitch of the show; first Shane (crazy) & then the Gov. (extra side of nuts crazy). Her hormones overruled her decision making skills. She had a keen opportunity to finish of the Gov. off after some naughty delight then KABLAM! problem solved escape back to the prison w/ her real community of Rick & the crew. I really like her character in the comics but w/ the show not so much. And then we move on to the badass in waiting, Carl telling Rick off. If you had done this, this & this all these people would be alive still then drops the badge & leaves w/ having a man to man talk. Also what if Hershel was wrong & the kid from Woodbury had a knife in his pocket or an extra gun then Carl would be dead & all hell would be let loose. Something to think about. I will miss Merle the most from this season going forward. I watched the entire season every Sunday as one long experience. I confess it needs less talking & more stuff blowing up not just on season opener, mid season & season finale raise the stakes and keep viewers interested. I rate this season a 4 out of 5 stars rating (not prefect but good enough).
Man that was a disappointing finale!! The comic had such an awesome finale to the Prsion arc - and instead we got this??
The main"battle" was a quick ambush and that was it? And they set up w/machine guns, the gov's people run out, and they missed every single one of them?? Were they trying to miss them? (and if so, why not tell us this?).
Andrea is killed by zombie Milton? really? And off-camera? WTF??
And where'd the gov go?? Not back to woodbury or prison?
Andrea was the horny bitch of the show; first Shane (crazy) & then the Gov. (extra side of nuts crazy). Her hormones overruled her decision making skills. She had a keen opportunity to finish of the Gov. off after some naughty delight then KABLAM! problem solved escape back to the prison w/ her real community of Rick & the crew. I really like her character in the comics but w/ the show not so much. And then we move on to the badass in waiting, Carl telling Rick off. If you had done this, this & this all these people would be alive still then drops the badge & leaves w/ having a man to man talk. Also what if Hershel was wrong & the kid from Woodbury had a knife in his pocket or an extra gun then Carl would be dead & all hell would be let loose. Something to think about. I will miss Merle the most from this season going forward. I watched the entire season every Sunday as one long experience. I confess it needs less talking & more stuff blowing up not just on season opener, mid season & season finale raise the stakes and keep viewers interested. I rate this season a 4 out of 5 stars rating (not prefect but good enough).
Matthew
how does Andrea having sex w/Shane and the Gov make her a "horny bitch." seems to me she's just a normal human being who enjoys sex. And when she initially had sex w/the Gov, she had no reason to think he was anything other than a charming handsome leader of a community who had good booze. If it was me and it was a female equivalent Gov, I'd be hitting that - wouldn't you? lol!
Man that was a disappointing finale!! The comic had such an awesome finale to the Prsion arc - and instead we got this??
I agree there was no big battle like we all seemed to be expecting, but "finale to the Prison arc"? If you're talking about how the prison is last seen in the comics, then that could still come. In the show they are still residing in the prison.
Andrea was the horny bitch of the show; first Shane (crazy) & then the Gov. (extra side of nuts crazy). Her hormones overruled her decision making skills. She had a keen opportunity to finish of the Gov. off after some naughty delight then KABLAM! problem solved escape back to the prison w/ her real community of Rick & the crew. I really like her character in the comics but w/ the show not so much. And then we move on to the badass in waiting, Carl telling Rick off. If you had done this, this & this all these people would be alive still then drops the badge & leaves w/ having a man to man talk. Also what if Hershel was wrong & the kid from Woodbury had a knife in his pocket or an extra gun then Carl would be dead & all hell would be let loose. Something to think about. I will miss Merle the most from this season going forward. I watched the entire season every Sunday as one long experience. I confess it needs less talking & more stuff blowing up not just on season opener, mid season & season finale raise the stakes and keep viewers interested. I rate this season a 4 out of 5 stars rating (not prefect but good enough).
Matthew
how does Andrea having sex w/Shane and the Gov make her a "horny bitch." seems to me she's just a normal human being who enjoys sex. And when she initially had sex w/the Gov, she had no reason to think he was anything other than a charming handsome leader of a community who had good booze. If it was me and it was a female equivalent Gov, I'd be hitting that - wouldn't you? lol!
e L nny
Throughout the series NOT just this season Andrea she went for the "alpha male" that was nuts -- Shane & the Gov. She rolled the dice and instead of going for red in killing the governor after sex w/ a knife or gun in the bedroom it came back to kill her in the end. To quote Pierce Brosnan's James Bond "That depends on your definition of safe sex" from GoldenEye. If I was getting freaky action w/ a female equivalent of the "Gov." I would have many weapons & multiple exit routes getting the hell out of dodge at the first hint of things going not just bad but royally messed up.
Matthew
PS If a chick lost an eye that would not bother me too much since I'm leagaly blind in one eye myself FYI.
Man that was a disappointing finale!! The comic had such an awesome finale to the Prsion arc - and instead we got this??
I agree there was no big battle like we all seemed to be expecting, but "finale to the Prison arc"? If you're talking about how the prison is last seen in the comics, then that could still come. In the show they are still residing in the prison.
True. I guess what we got was the finale to the Woodbury vs. The Prison arc! (which in the comic was the end of the prison arc).
Andrea was the horny bitch of the show; first Shane (crazy) & then the Gov. (extra side of nuts crazy).
Matthew
how does Andrea having sex w/Shane and the Gov make her a "horny bitch." seems to me she's just a normal human being who enjoys sex. And when she initially had sex w/the Gov, she had no reason to think he was anything other than a charming handsome leader of a community who had good booze. If it was me and it was a female equivalent Gov, I'd be hitting that - wouldn't you? lol!
e L nny
Throughout the series NOT just this season Andrea she went for the "alpha male" that was nuts -- Shane & the Gov. She rolled the dice and instead of going for red in killing the governor after sex w/ a knife or gun in the bedroom it came back to kill her in the end. To quote Pierce Brosnan's James Bond "That depends on your definition of safe sex" from GoldenEye. If I was getting freaky action w/ a female equivalent of the "Gov." I would have many weapons & multiple exit routes getting the hell out of dodge at the first hint of things going not just bad but royally messed up.
Matthew
PS If a chick lost an eye that would not bother me too much since I'm leagaly blind in one eye myself FYI.
But when Andrea went for the Gov, she had no way of knowing he was crazy - he hadn't exhibited any crazy symptoms. Pretty much the same for Shane. I think the worst you can say about Andrea is that her instincts for men are poor. Horny bitch seems a bit harsh to me!
I can't believe they are stretching the Governor out to another season. UGH.
And was that bus supposed to be everyone in Woodbury that wasn't killed on the road? And how exactly did Rick and company- who supposedly these people believed were terrorists- convince them to abandon their walled town and go to the prison? Convenient and expedient to leave that out-- like the sheep in a Warner Brothers cartoon I guess the older women and children of Woodbury just go wherever you tell them to?
And I agree that the storytelling of the Raid and ambush was really unclear. I don't know why, after coming on so strong and so well-armed, that some flash and smoke would have been enough to scare them out, or why Rick and his people would have declared victory (and take their helmets off and stand around, clearly not afraid of any snipers) after scaring them off and not killing a single one of them. How is that any different than the last time there was an assault and a retreat?
And despite being an original character, Andrea's death lacked emotional punch because they have spent all season assassinating her character and alienating her from the fans. This episode had her explaining and justifying, over and over, why she made the decisions she did, but it is a little late for that. The fact that we cared more when Merle died than Andrea says a lot about where this season has made some wrong turns.
Really muddy, weak finale. AMC needs to spend more on this show, staff a proper writer's room, and keep a showrunner for more than half a season. Their current approach is sending this show down the tubes.
I can't believe they are stretching the Governor out to another season. UGH.
And was that bus supposed to be everyone in Woodbury that wasn't killed on the road? And how exactly did Rick and company- who supposedly these people believed were terrorists- convince them to abandon their walled town and go to the prison? Convenient and expedient to leave that out-- like the sheep in a Warner Brothers cartoon I guess the older women and children of Woodbury just go wherever you tell them to?
And I agree that the storytelling of the Raid and ambush was really unclear. I don't know why, after coming on so strong and so well-armed, that some flash and smoke would have been enough to scare them out, or why Rick and his people would have declared victory (and take their helmets off and stand around, clearly not afraid of any snipers) after scaring them off and not killing a single one of them. How is that any different than the last time there was an assault and a retreat?
And despite being an original character, Andrea's death lacked emotional punch because they have spent all season assassinating her character and alienating her from the fans. This episode had her explaining and justifying, over and over, why she made the decisions she did, but it is a little late for that. The fact that we cared more when Merle died than Andrea says a lot about where this season has made some wrong turns.
Really muddy, weak finale. AMC needs to spend more on this show, staff a proper writer's room, and keep a showrunner for more than half a season. Their current approach is sending this show down the tubes.
Agree on all points.
I guess we're supposed to think that the woman who survived did the major convincing of everyone else. When you think about it, a lot of those who stayed behind has just lost a husband or wife or son or daughter and were probably in shock, too. Still, you'd think this would have been an important scene to show. Plus, as far as Tyreese knows, Rick is a crazy man, given his limited experience with Rick, so why'd he go to the prison?? (or did we not see him in the final scene?).
I can't believe they are stretching the Governor out to another season. UGH.
And was that bus supposed to be everyone in Woodbury that wasn't killed on the road? And how exactly did Rick and company- who supposedly these people believed were terrorists- convince them to abandon their walled town and go to the prison? Convenient and expedient to leave that out-- like the sheep in a Warner Brothers cartoon I guess the older women and children of Woodbury just go wherever you tell them to?
And I agree that the storytelling of the Raid and ambush was really unclear. I don't know why, after coming on so strong and so well-armed, that some flash and smoke would have been enough to scare them out, or why Rick and his people would have declared victory (and take their helmets off and stand around, clearly not afraid of any snipers) after scaring them off and not killing a single one of them. How is that any different than the last time there was an assault and a retreat?
And despite being an original character, Andrea's death lacked emotional punch because they have spent all season assassinating her character and alienating her from the fans. This episode had her explaining and justifying, over and over, why she made the decisions she did, but it is a little late for that. The fact that we cared more when Merle died than Andrea says a lot about where this season has made some wrong turns.
Really muddy, weak finale. AMC needs to spend more on this show, staff a proper writer's room, and keep a showrunner for more than half a season. Their current approach is sending this show down the tubes.
Agree on all points.
I guess we're supposed to think that the woman who survived did the major convincing of everyone else. When you think about it, a lot of those who stayed behind has just lost a husband or wife or son or daughter and were probably in shock, too. Still, you'd think this would have been an important scene to show. Plus, as far as Tyreese knows, Rick is a crazy man, given his limited experience with Rick, so why'd he go to the prison?? (or did we not see him in the final scene?).
e L nny
Plus are we supposed to believe that the Governor's plan (that everyone was going to go along with, without standing up to him or having a mutiny) was to take ALL the able-bodied people with them on the attack, except that because Tyrese spoke up, he and Sasha ended up staying behind as the two, ONLY, able and armed people to man the walls and protect the children and old folks? Rubbish. The mutiny that happened on the road would have happened sooner than that. And someone on that road would have shot down the Governor. Sure, he might have surprised a few of them, but there were way too many wired and heavily armed people in that scene for all of them to just stand around like the extras they were.
And what exactly was Rick, Michonne, and Darryl's plan when the three of them headed out? Sure, their weird-and completely nonlethal- trap sent the Governor's men running, but they figured they would "finish things" by leaving their defenses and walls behind, and go running after the much larger group of people who showed they have far superior weapons? Was their plan to try to find them on the road? To let them get back to the walls of Woodbury and somehow make a frontal assault? Maybe Darryl was going to jump the walls on his motorcycle and Michonne was going to go against a .50 machine gun on a hummer with her sword? Rubbish. They've survived too long and been too careful to suddenly be that dumb.
Plus are we supposed to believe that the Governor's plan (that everyone was going to go along with, without standing up to him or having a mutiny) was to take ALL the able-bodied people with them on the attack, except that because Tyrese spoke up, he and Sasha ended up staying behind as the two, ONLY, able and armed people to man the walls and protect the children and old folks? Rubbish. The mutiny that happened on the road would have happened sooner than that. And someone on that road would have shot down the Governor. Sure, he might have surprised a few of them, but there were way too many wired and heavily armed people in that scene for all of them to just stand around like the extras they were.
And what exactly was Rick, Michonne, and Darryl's plan when the three of them headed out? Sure, their weird-and completely nonlethal- trap sent the Governor's men running, but they figured they would "finish things" by leaving their defenses and walls behind, and go running after the much larger group of people who showed they have far superior weapons? Was their plan to try to find them on the road? To let them get back to the walls of Woodbury and somehow make a frontal assault? Maybe Darryl was going to jump the walls on his motorcycle and Michonne was going to go against a .50 machine gun on a hummer with her sword? Rubbish. They've survived too long and been too careful to suddenly be that dumb.
I think we're supposed to think that ALL of them went. Yes, seems a bit nutty. but I guess the thinking is that the Gov whipped them up into a total fear of Rick's group and this was a do or die mission.
Well, the Rick/Michonne/Daryl plan mirrors exactly the Tyreese/Michonne plan from the comic - they're off guard, wipe them out (altho, again, unbelievable that 2-3 (?) people w/machine guns aiming at a doorway where they knew people would be coming out of, failed to kill a single person!!). So, yes, I think it was to catch them on the road while they were still disoriented and fleeing.
Of course we see how well the Tyreese/Michonne comic plan worked - likely that would have been the case here, as well. For a brief moment tho, I was thinking they were going to follow the comic script and lead it up to Daryl's beheading by Michonne's katana. But clearly this show does not have the balls to do anything as nervy as that!
The scenes with Carl have become my favorite thing on the show so far. He's colder than young Michael Myers and pragmatic as hell. This kid is a ticking timebomb.
This season was not handled well IMO and the finale was super weak. Lots of wasted potential and pretty noticable quality dip all around from the first two seasons. Hope they can get their focus back for next season. I will say I see a bright future though for the actress playing Michone.
Other than that... I enjoyed the this season immensely.
I have no problem with how the raid on the prison ended. My only problem is how the episode ended. It didn't feel like a season finale. It just felt like the end of the episode, if that makes any sense.
Seems like I am one of the few that enjoyed the season finale. But I had a feeling about 3 episodes into this season that the prison arc wasn't gonna be over by the season finale.
Plus this season was so much better than season 2. I almost gave up on the show during season 2. It was so drawn out. Weirdly when the season 2 blu ray came out I bought it and watched the entire season over 3 days. And it worked much better then.
Finally caught up with the last few episodes over this past weekend.
I agree with what others have said - they need to get some sort of stable writing situation to craft a stronger, tighter season. I think of shows like The Sopranos, where there was a guiding hand to keep the characters consistent, and make sure that every episode led to a payoff at season's end. When a character does something drastic, it shouldn't come out of the blue, it should be the logical result of the groundwork that's already been laid. And the results of that action should impact the show in a way that creates more stories, not to just create a shock of the week.
I understand Andrea dying, because her character had nowhere to go, but with better writing that didn't have to be the case. I also feel that Merle is a more interesting character alive at this point. The tension his presence created had more story in it. And if his end was still to sacrifice himself, then more time could have been spent building to that. They seem so willing to drag out other stories, yet at the same time quick to snuff out other ones before their time.
And I have no further interest in the Governor. I'm a little surprised to see he's back for another season.
So, all in all, I still enjoy the show, week to week, but far too often I feel like they're flying by the seat of their pants. This second half of the season had very little build, and the finale just felt like a regular episode to me.
Comments
It's hard to see though that Rick would allow his daughter to be kept by someone while he went elsewhere. If there was a place that was safe, then why wouldn't he stay there himself w/Carl and the others. So really seems to me the 2 choices are kill the lil asskicker or grin and bear an infant on the show.
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But remember- we never actually saw that baby. There was just a stroller and a sound effect. Still creepy and I remember a very visceral shock when I saw that. But I would be very surprised if they were to kill a baby that is actually shown and established as a character.
But, we'll see. They might dare. It would certainly make for some water cooler talk and social media buzz.
Ugh. I know not everything can be as good as "Clear" (the episode with Rick, Carl, and Michonne going back to Rick and Carl's town) but I thought "Prey" was terrible- we knew that Andrea wouldn't kill the Governor or vice versa, so what is the point of dragging it out this much? My only guess is an episode of a lot of drawn-out slasher movie cliche and not much event (and barely any of the principal cast) was a budget saver.
I also think the writers have done the Andrea character no favors this season. I'm not surprised 'the Internet hates her' as they say, there has just not been enough done to track her arc or justify her choices. Even starting out the episode with a flashback to her and Michonne's time in the woods only helped to build up Michonne's character (and pathos) and make it all that more damning that Andrea turned her back on her earlier in the season.
Similarly it felt like this was the episode where they remembered they had Tyresse and his group and scrambled to get back to them and try to remind the viewers why to care. Also, in a Woodbury short on bullets (and trust) why would Tyrese and Sasha be given guns, bullets, and a post on the wall? There are whole crowds of characters that have lived in Woodbury from the start. Were they just waiting for tougher-looking strangers to come along? Those are the sorts of expedient, nonsensical choices that have really started weakening this show (for me) as time has gone on. I feel like the lack of full-time writing staff and showrunner musical chair is starting to show.
Here's hoping they get back to form in the last two. And then (I only hope) get the hell away from Woodbury stories and on to other things.
I also liked the Tyrese stuff - I think we now have a pretty good idea what Tyrese is all about - and I don't think he's drinking the Gov's koolaid, despite his staying put for the short run. As to why they have been armed, they've made it clear that Woodbury is short on competent adult soldiers - so it makes sense they'd be armed. Are they really a danger to Woodbury given that they're are pretty outnumbered, otherwise?
Only 2 eps left - I'm psyched to see what happens next!
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Back to the prediction drawing board!
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A pretty good episode overall but as usual it was a slow buildup til the end of the episode.
Matthew
Matthew
The main"battle" was a quick ambush and that was it? And they set up w/machine guns, the gov's people run out, and they missed every single one of them?? Were they trying to miss them? (and if so, why not tell us this?).
Andrea is killed by zombie Milton? really? And off-camera? WTF??
And where'd the gov go?? Not back to woodbury or prison?
The Carl scene was good. He's a scary dude.
Man was I totally wrong in my predictions!! Lol
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Throughout the series NOT just this season Andrea she went for the "alpha male" that was nuts -- Shane & the Gov. She rolled the dice and instead of going for red in killing the governor after sex w/ a knife or gun in the bedroom it came back to kill her in the end. To quote Pierce Brosnan's James Bond "That depends on your definition of safe sex" from GoldenEye. If I was getting freaky action w/ a female equivalent of the "Gov." I would have many weapons & multiple exit routes getting the hell out of dodge at the first hint of things going not just bad but royally messed up.
Matthew
PS
If a chick lost an eye that would not bother me too much since I'm leagaly blind in one eye myself FYI.
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And was that bus supposed to be everyone in Woodbury that wasn't killed on the road? And how exactly did Rick and company- who supposedly these people believed were terrorists- convince them to abandon their walled town and go to the prison? Convenient and expedient to leave that out-- like the sheep in a Warner Brothers cartoon I guess the older women and children of Woodbury just go wherever you tell them to?
And I agree that the storytelling of the Raid and ambush was really unclear. I don't know why, after coming on so strong and so well-armed, that some flash and smoke would have been enough to scare them out, or why Rick and his people would have declared victory (and take their helmets off and stand around, clearly not afraid of any snipers) after scaring them off and not killing a single one of them. How is that any different than the last time there was an assault and a retreat?
And despite being an original character, Andrea's death lacked emotional punch because they have spent all season assassinating her character and alienating her from the fans. This episode had her explaining and justifying, over and over, why she made the decisions she did, but it is a little late for that. The fact that we cared more when Merle died than Andrea says a lot about where this season has made some wrong turns.
Really muddy, weak finale. AMC needs to spend more on this show, staff a proper writer's room, and keep a showrunner for more than half a season. Their current approach is sending this show down the tubes.
I guess we're supposed to think that the woman who survived did the major convincing of everyone else. When you think about it, a lot of those who stayed behind has just lost a husband or wife or son or daughter and were probably in shock, too. Still, you'd think this would have been an important scene to show. Plus, as far as Tyreese knows, Rick is a crazy man, given his limited experience with Rick, so why'd he go to the prison?? (or did we not see him in the final scene?).
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And what exactly was Rick, Michonne, and Darryl's plan when the three of them headed out? Sure, their weird-and completely nonlethal- trap sent the Governor's men running, but they figured they would "finish things" by leaving their defenses and walls behind, and go running after the much larger group of people who showed they have far superior weapons? Was their plan to try to find them on the road? To let them get back to the walls of Woodbury and somehow make a frontal assault? Maybe Darryl was going to jump the walls on his motorcycle and Michonne was going to go against a .50 machine gun on a hummer with her sword? Rubbish. They've survived too long and been too careful to suddenly be that dumb.
Well, the Rick/Michonne/Daryl plan mirrors exactly the Tyreese/Michonne plan from the comic - they're off guard, wipe them out (altho, again, unbelievable that 2-3 (?) people w/machine guns aiming at a doorway where they knew people would be coming out of, failed to kill a single person!!). So, yes, I think it was to catch them on the road while they were still disoriented and fleeing.
Of course we see how well the Tyreese/Michonne comic plan worked - likely that would have been the case here, as well. For a brief moment tho, I was thinking they were going to follow the comic script and lead it up to Daryl's beheading by Michonne's katana. But clearly this show does not have the balls to do anything as nervy as that!
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Chandler Riggs will go places.
Hope they can get their focus back for next season.
I will say I see a bright future though for the actress playing Michone.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/s135/the-walking-dead/news/a469764/the-walking-dead-star-confirmed-to-return-for-season-four.html
Matthew
How about instead of stopping and talking, focus on getting the damn pliers. Or maybe even do both at the same time.
Do the writers even realize how dumb that made her look?
I have no problem with how the raid on the prison ended. My only problem is how the episode ended. It didn't feel like a season finale. It just felt like the end of the episode, if that makes any sense.
Plus this season was so much better than season 2. I almost gave up on the show during season 2. It was so drawn out. Weirdly when the season 2 blu ray came out I bought it and watched the entire season over 3 days. And it worked much better then.
I agree with what others have said - they need to get some sort of stable writing situation to craft a stronger, tighter season. I think of shows like The Sopranos, where there was a guiding hand to keep the characters consistent, and make sure that every episode led to a payoff at season's end. When a character does something drastic, it shouldn't come out of the blue, it should be the logical result of the groundwork that's already been laid. And the results of that action should impact the show in a way that creates more stories, not to just create a shock of the week.
I understand Andrea dying, because her character had nowhere to go, but with better writing that didn't have to be the case. I also feel that Merle is a more interesting character alive at this point. The tension his presence created had more story in it. And if his end was still to sacrifice himself, then more time could have been spent building to that. They seem so willing to drag out other stories, yet at the same time quick to snuff out other ones before their time.
And I have no further interest in the Governor. I'm a little surprised to see he's back for another season.
So, all in all, I still enjoy the show, week to week, but far too often I feel like they're flying by the seat of their pants. This second half of the season had very little build, and the finale just felt like a regular episode to me.