Wasnt too blown away with the midseason finale. Think theyve rushed this storyline along too fast. I also think theyve made the Gov far too sympathetic. I wouldnt be heartbroken at all to see andrea killed off... shes getting on my nerves. I doubt Merle will be returning to the group but suspect the situation will cause tension and loyalty issues for Daryl. Im curious how long the baby will survive, I suspect quite longer than in the comics. I also imagine we'll see the hillbilly inmate rape and kill the young blonde gal.
Wasnt too blown away with the midseason finale. Think theyve rushed this storyline along too fast. I also think theyve made the Gov far too sympathetic.
Too sympathetic? Can I ask why you feel that way? You may be the first person I've seen express that opinion. From my experience, most people don't feel he's sympathetic at all. And I honestly don't think the producers have purposely attempted to portray him that way. I mean, I don't feel any sympathy towards him and I don't feel the show has tried to garner any sympathy out of me for the character.
Wasnt too blown away with the midseason finale. Think theyve rushed this storyline along too fast. I also think theyve made the Gov far too sympathetic.
Too sympathetic? Can I ask why you feel that way? You may be the first person I've seen express that opinion. From my experience, most people don't feel he's sympathetic at all. And I honestly don't think the producers have purposely attempted to portray him that way. I mean, I don't feel any sympathy towards him and I don't feel the show has tried to garner any sympathy out of me for the character.
mainly by comparison to his comic counterpart. as far as the show goes, the most specifically "bad" thing hes done was the killing of the National Guardsmen and beating up Glen. Most everything else hasnt been that bad or could be explained to some degree. In the show he comes off as a grief stricken father just trying to survive and help others do the same. They barely more than hint at what lies beneath. In the books he was evil and sadistic and there was no doubt of it. With the horrors of this world and all thats happened and been done, I just dont see hes been portrayed as worse Nec.
Wasnt too blown away with the midseason finale. Think theyve rushed this storyline along too fast. I also think theyve made the Gov far too sympathetic.
Too sympathetic? Can I ask why you feel that way? You may be the first person I've seen express that opinion. From my experience, most people don't feel he's sympathetic at all. And I honestly don't think the producers have purposely attempted to portray him that way. I mean, I don't feel any sympathy towards him and I don't feel the show has tried to garner any sympathy out of me for the character.
mainly by comparison to his comic counterpart. as far as the show goes, the most specifically "bad" thing hes done was the killing of the National Guardsmen and beating up Glen. Most everything else hasnt been that bad or could be explained to some degree. In the show he comes off as a grief stricken father just trying to survive and help others do the same. They barely more than hint at what lies beneath. In the books he was evil and sadistic and there was no doubt of it. With the horrors of this world and all thats happened and been done, I just dont see hes been portrayed as worse Nec.
I think he's deliberately being portrayed as less crazier than the comic book counterpart because it's more realistic that way. Woodbury is supposed to be this town where everyone feels safe and secure and they have absolutely no idea what's actually going on with The Governor and his inner circle. That isn't plausible if he's clearly portrayed as a maniac.
Yes, he's portrayed as a grief stricken father, but I think the thing with his daughter and the heads show he isn't completely right upstairs. I think they do a good job of showing he isn't completely on the up and up as almost everything he says to Andrea and the general townspeople is directly the opposite of what we've actually seen him do.
I imagine the character in the comic book wasn't always evil and sadistic, but something happened that put him on that road. Maybe The Governor in the show will eventually get there. We're seeing him in the early stages. His daughter's presence may have really been the only thing that kept him more or less in check. With her gone, I can see him slipping into evil.
i'm with batlaw on this one. In the comics Andrea is one of my favorites, hands down top 3 of all time. in the TV Show i can hardly stand to look at her . The Govenor is WAAY to sympathetic, so much so that by having Michone kill Penny they have effectively made her more villianous than the govenor. The characterization of Michone has been pretty flawed as well, mostly, i think because they have her reacting to the govenor as if he had already tortured and raped her (comics) but that hasn't happened in the TV continuity so Michone comes off as unreasonible and borderline psychotic.
And, as for action, Shane's fall into a near sociopath, & the sacrifice of Otis - holy shit! I couldn't believe that! Carl's near death experience, Dale's death, the search for Sophia & ultimately finding her in the barn as a zombie - ALL of that and more was PLENTY of action, COUPLED with emotion and drama. The horrors of Season 2 were more subtle, more psychological, and more personal. When Lori tried to instigate Rick into killing Shane, telling Rick that Shane is a threat, etc. - WOW! I was blown away by that.
I may not agree with you on most things regarding the show, but I agree with you here, @CourtofOwls. You perfectly encapsulated my feelings on season 2.
I loved all of that season, from start to finish. I never really felt the "drag" others did.
And, as for action, Shane's fall into a near sociopath, & the sacrifice of Otis - holy shit! I couldn't believe that! Carl's near death experience, Dale's death, the search for Sophia & ultimately finding her in the barn as a zombie - ALL of that and more was PLENTY of action, COUPLED with emotion and drama. The horrors of Season 2 were more subtle, more psychological, and more personal. When Lori tried to instigate Rick into killing Shane, telling Rick that Shane is a threat, etc. - WOW! I was blown away by that.
I may not agree with you on most things regarding the show, but I agree with you here, @CourtofOwls. You perfectly encapsulated my feelings on season 2.
I loved all of that season, from start to finish. I never really felt the "drag" others did.
Season 2 worked better for me when I watched it in 3 days on Blu ray.Than when I watched it one episode a week for a couple of months. The pacing was better seeing it all in a few days.
That's how I felt watching the current season. It worked much better for me when I watched the episodes all over again over the course of a couple of days, vs watching week by week.
Overall, my disappointment with this season correlates with my general disappointment whenever I watch a movie or TV show based on a book that I have read. If I have read a book (comic book or otherwise), & I hear there is a movie or TV show coming out based on it, I am almost always disappointed. Time and again, the movie or TV show is related to the book in name only. So much is changed, one wonders why the film makers even bothered to call their product by the same name as the book. There are very few exceptions where I felt the movie or TV show lived up to the book. Therefore, if I have already read the book, I almost never bother to go see the movie - unless I hear great things about it. If I have NOT read the book, I will go see the movie - which may, or may not, inspire me to seek out the original written material.
This season of The Walking Dead changed SO many things from the original source book, I feel it hardly deserves to be called The Walking Dead. Prior seasons of the show changed stuff, but the stuff that was changed was less significant to me. The Governor, however, I feel was a huge part of the comic and deserves to be as true to the source material as possible. Otherwise, why call him The Governor?? Just make a new character. They've done it in other seasons - created new characters - so why not now? And Andrea & The Governor having an affair??? That never happens in the book.
But, as I said, regardless of this season's disappointments, I did enjoy it a lot more re-watching all the episodes one after the other, vs waiting week by week. The mid-season cliffhanger was good, but I think it is pretty obvious that Andrea will speak up for Merle and Darryl, and Rick will save them and take them out of Woodbury, and the big showdown at the prison will follow shortly thereafter.
What remains to be seen is where Andrea's ultimate loyalties will lie - The Governor or her old friends. While I believe she will stand up for Darryl & Merle, I don't think she is ready to leave the Governor yet. She saw his room with all the zombie heads and accepted his story as to why he has them (just like she accepts all his rationalizations for his sick behavior), and she really hasn't felt a connection to - or been part of - Rick's group emotionally for a long time.
I don't particularly like what they are doing with the Andrea character - the path they have taken with her. But, I have to believe they have made the character go in this direction for a reason that will ultimately prove essential to the storyline. I do like The Walking Dead TV series overall, but I find I am having to let more and more of the Walking Dead comic book go from my mind in order to be able to really enjoy the show.
There is one thing that annoyed me. And it's petty.
I love that we have Tyreese. But I feel like hes replacing another black character. Who was replacing another black character who was killed.
I know it's stupid, but I really would have liked to have seen Oscar survive a bit longer.
I felt the same way about the new white guy that's with Tyreese. I feel like he's replacing another white character (that white kid who Merle killed). Who was replacing another white character (Lori). I would have wanted to see the white kid survive a bit longer. :P
There is one thing that annoyed me. And it's petty.
I love that we have Tyreese. But I feel like hes replacing another black character. Who was replacing another black character who was killed.
I know it's stupid, but I really would have liked to have seen Oscar survive a bit longer.
I felt the same way about the new white guy that's with Tyreese. I feel like he's replacing another white character (that white kid who Merle killed). Who was replacing another white character (Lori). I would have wanted to see the white kid survive a bit longer. :P
Regarding how the TV show is handling the Governor-- personally I like it, and I think it is a real improvement over the comics. I don't think they have made him more sympathetic. Rather, I think the intent is to just make him better at hiding how crazy and he is, and how far he is willing to go. To his public, he seems a smooth-faced, charismatic, and humble leader. Someone who has lost his family, and now is doing the best he can to protect his community. That facade is who Andrea has started falling for.
But as the audience, we get to see what else he is doing, and capable of-- keeping Penny around, the heads in the fish tanks, the science experimetns behind closed doors, he has his own hit squad, he will kill and plunder other groups without question, like the National Guardsmen, he uses torture, etc.
So I think they are making him more dangerous by arming him with that power to deceive. (It also allows me to better believe in Woodbury as a place. I found the people of Woodbury a little hard to buy in the comic. The Governor, and that whole period of the book was where I almost jumped off, as a book that had done a great group of portraying human nature to that point suddenly had the characters bump into a Pirate King and his scurvy peoples and I just didn't buy it. But I digress.)
And I think they are also just taking longer with the Governor than the comic did. Not only to let the character play out, and be revealed layer by layer to the audience, but also to allow for some internal conflict in the group (e.g. Andrea vs. Michonne; probably Andrea vs. the rest of the group soon) which was not what they went for in the comic, as they tend to drive forward faster on survival and plot. But inter-character conflict is more the nature and currency of a TV show.
But even if I like what they are doing with the Governor, I will agree with others that I was a little underwhelmed by the midseason finale. It has been a great season so far, but it seemed like they were rushing to a cliffhanger, and Michonne's actions just don't ring true. I mean, sure, the Governor tried to have her killed. But she seems like she has survived too long to get all Kill Bill on him the way she does in the show. It just seems to personal, and too reckless. Too expedient and conveniently tight-lipped. I didn't buy it. Oh well. Even with a few missteps it is still a strong season. Looking forward to more.
I really, really hope this was his choice, and not AMC forcing him out.
Edit: Apparently it was:
"My time as showrunner on 'The Walking Dead' has been an amazing experience, but after I finish season 3, it's time to move on. I have told the stories I wanted to tell and connected with our fans on a level that I never imagined. It doesn't get much better than that. Thank you to everyone who has been a part of this journey."
Finally got caught up while taking vacation time over the holidays. Continue to enjly the series but really find the fighting pit set to be utterly absurd. I can accept the concept of the walkers, but in an otherwise "real" world, I can find no reason for building or site to have that kind of function and configuration (that wasn't designed expressly for giant mutant cockfighting, or something equally untethered to the otherwise real world).
I also prefer the shows appraoch to the Governor vs. the comics. I just dont see how this Governor is really THAT bad (all things considered). I think he should be portrayed as a "worse" person or just more villainous than he is. Not Nec. as psychotic and clearly evil as the comics but deffinately should be worse. I mean, keeping those heads is creepy but thats about it. Keeping his daughter is understandable and hardly makes him bad and his experiments are perfectly sensible.
We know hes a bad guy cause we just do from experience and because its implied but as far as the show has SHOWN us though, hes not that different or much worse than Hershel or Rick IMO. At least not to the degree I think he should be anyway or to explain the other characters rallying against him as they have.
I also prefer the shows appraoch to the Governor vs. the comics. I just dont see how this Governor is really THAT bad (all things considered). I think he should be portrayed as a "worse" person or just more villainous than he is. Not Nec. as psychotic and clearly evil as the comics but deffinately should be worse. I mean, keeping those heads is creepy but thats about it. Keeping his daughter is understandable and hardly makes him bad and his experiments are perfectly sensible.
We know hes a bad guy cause we just do from experience and because its implied but as far as the show has SHOWN us though, hes not that different or much worse than Hershel or Rick IMO. At least not to the degree I think he should be anyway or to explain the other characters rallying against him as they have.
Methinks that we know he's a bad guy because of the ambush and slaughter of the National Guardsmen (including the injured, but unbitten victims of the helo crash) to say nothing of the "interrogation" of Maggie. The other stuff just makes him bat$#!t crazy.
Hrm....I have a crazy theory that's likely not going to happen. Anyone think Andrea's going to end up taking the role of Lily, from the comics?
And if the Governor is going to last more than one season, how's that going to happen? Maybe there's a bigger threat out there that forces both groups to work together?
(Probably something else that isn't going to happen)
On one hand, Scott wrote episodes 203, 207, 210, 306.
On the other, Scott was a screenwriter on Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.
so, let me clarify. in 4 seasons we have gone from the man who gave the world The Shawshank Redemption (one of the most loved movies of all time) to the guy who wrote the steaming fecal pile Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengence. I don't see how this can end badly.
On one hand, Scott wrote episodes 203, 207, 210, 306.
On the other, Scott was a screenwriter on Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.
so, let me clarify. in 4 seasons we have gone from the man who gave the world The Shawshank Redemption (one of the most loved movies of all time) to the guy who wrote the steaming fecal pile Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengence. I don't see how this can end badly.
To be fair-- Ghost Rider: SOV had two credited directors, and Gimple was one of four credited writers (and those are just the writers who got credited. . . who KNOWS how many people wrote on a mess like that).
Darabont got to be the sole credited screenwriter (adapted, sure, but still the only credited screenwriter of the adaptation) and directed the script he wrote. That is usually a very different situation than the one Gimple was in. When you are one of a group of writers on a movie you are not directing, then there can be a big gap between what you wrote and what got made. They tends to be less the case in how TV gets made. Especially in situations where the writers are also producers. And especially when you are the showrunner.
I mean, nothing is guaranteed. Past performance, both good and bad, is no guarantee of future returns, as they say. But I don't know that Ghost Rider: SOV is a fair result to judge Gimple by. I would judge him more by the scripts he wrote for Walking Dead. There was likely fewer levels of separation between what he wrote and what got made in that case. And they are a better indication of what Walking Dead writing he will do and oversee in the future.
On one hand, Scott wrote episodes 203, 207, 210, 306.
On the other, Scott was a screenwriter on Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.
so, let me clarify. in 4 seasons we have gone from the man who gave the world The Shawshank Redemption (one of the most loved movies of all time) to the guy who wrote the steaming fecal pile Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengence. I don't see how this can end badly.
To be fair-- Ghost Rider: SOV had two credited directors, and Gimple was one of four credited writers (and those are just the writers who got credited. . . who KNOWS how many people wrote on a mess like that).
Darabont got to be the sole credited screenwriter (adapted, sure, but still the only credited screenwriter of the adaptation) and directed the script he wrote. That is usually a very different situation than the one Gimple was in. When you are one of a group of writers on a movie you are not directing, then there can be a big gap between what you wrote and what got made. They tends to be less the case in how TV gets made. Especially in situations where the writers are also producers. And especially when you are the showrunner.
I mean, nothing is guaranteed. Past performance, both good and bad, is no guarantee of future returns, as they say. But I don't know that Ghost Rider: SOV is a fair result to judge Gimple by. I would judge him more by the scripts he wrote for Walking Dead. There was likely fewer levels of separation between what he wrote and what got made in that case. And they are a better indication of what Walking Dead writing he will do and oversee in the future.
So what you're saying is... .with Gimple, it's not that simple? :p
Comments
http://tv.yahoo.com/news/walking-dead-renewed-season-4-exec-producer-glen-173817994.html
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/12/21/walking-dead-season-4-official-no-glen-mazzara/
Yes, he's portrayed as a grief stricken father, but I think the thing with his daughter and the heads show he isn't completely right upstairs. I think they do a good job of showing he isn't completely on the up and up as almost everything he says to Andrea and the general townspeople is directly the opposite of what we've actually seen him do.
I imagine the character in the comic book wasn't always evil and sadistic, but something happened that put him on that road. Maybe The Governor in the show will eventually get there. We're seeing him in the early stages. His daughter's presence may have really been the only thing that kept him more or less in check. With her gone, I can see him slipping into evil.
We've got 8 more episodes in the season.
This season is friggin' awesome.
I loved all of that season, from start to finish. I never really felt the "drag" others did.
I loved all of that season, from start to finish. I never really felt the "drag" others did.
Season 2 worked better for me when I watched it in 3 days on Blu ray.Than when I watched it one episode a week for a couple of months. The pacing was better seeing it all in a few days.
Overall, my disappointment with this season correlates with my general disappointment whenever I watch a movie or TV show based on a book that I have read. If I have read a book (comic book or otherwise), & I hear there is a movie or TV show coming out based on it, I am almost always disappointed. Time and again, the movie or TV show is related to the book in name only. So much is changed, one wonders why the film makers even bothered to call their product by the same name as the book. There are very few exceptions where I felt the movie or TV show lived up to the book. Therefore, if I have already read the book, I almost never bother to go see the movie - unless I hear great things about it. If I have NOT read the book, I will go see the movie - which may, or may not, inspire me to seek out the original written material.
This season of The Walking Dead changed SO many things from the original source book, I feel it hardly deserves to be called The Walking Dead. Prior seasons of the show changed stuff, but the stuff that was changed was less significant to me. The Governor, however, I feel was a huge part of the comic and deserves to be as true to the source material as possible. Otherwise, why call him The Governor?? Just make a new character. They've done it in other seasons - created new characters - so why not now? And Andrea & The Governor having an affair??? That never happens in the book.
But, as I said, regardless of this season's disappointments, I did enjoy it a lot more re-watching all the episodes one after the other, vs waiting week by week. The mid-season cliffhanger was good, but I think it is pretty obvious that Andrea will speak up for Merle and Darryl, and Rick will save them and take them out of Woodbury, and the big showdown at the prison will follow shortly thereafter.
What remains to be seen is where Andrea's ultimate loyalties will lie - The Governor or her old friends. While I believe she will stand up for Darryl & Merle, I don't think she is ready to leave the Governor yet. She saw his room with all the zombie heads and accepted his story as to why he has them (just like she accepts all his rationalizations for his sick behavior), and she really hasn't felt a connection to - or been part of - Rick's group emotionally for a long time.
I don't particularly like what they are doing with the Andrea character - the path they have taken with her. But, I have to believe they have made the character go in this direction for a reason that will ultimately prove essential to the storyline. I do like The Walking Dead TV series overall, but I find I am having to let more and more of the Walking Dead comic book go from my mind in order to be able to really enjoy the show.
I love that we have Tyreese. But I feel like hes replacing another black character. Who was replacing another black character who was killed.
I know it's stupid, but I really would have liked to have seen Oscar survive a bit longer.
e
L nny
http://www.ohio.com/blogs/heldenfiles/the-heldenfiles-online-1.258385/walking-dead-live-coming-to-cleveland-tickets-on-sale-friday-1.356829
I have my ticket! Hope to see you there if you're in the area.
Regarding how the TV show is handling the Governor-- personally I like it, and I think it is a real improvement over the comics. I don't think they have made him more sympathetic. Rather, I think the intent is to just make him better at hiding how crazy and he is, and how far he is willing to go. To his public, he seems a smooth-faced, charismatic, and humble leader. Someone who has lost his family, and now is doing the best he can to protect his community. That facade is who Andrea has started falling for.
But as the audience, we get to see what else he is doing, and capable of-- keeping Penny around, the heads in the fish tanks, the science experimetns behind closed doors, he has his own hit squad, he will kill and plunder other groups without question, like the National Guardsmen, he uses torture, etc.
So I think they are making him more dangerous by arming him with that power to deceive. (It also allows me to better believe in Woodbury as a place. I found the people of Woodbury a little hard to buy in the comic. The Governor, and that whole period of the book was where I almost jumped off, as a book that had done a great group of portraying human nature to that point suddenly had the characters bump into a Pirate King and his scurvy peoples and I just didn't buy it. But I digress.)
And I think they are also just taking longer with the Governor than the comic did. Not only to let the character play out, and be revealed layer by layer to the audience, but also to allow for some internal conflict in the group (e.g. Andrea vs. Michonne; probably Andrea vs. the rest of the group soon) which was not what they went for in the comic, as they tend to drive forward faster on survival and plot. But inter-character conflict is more the nature and currency of a TV show.
But even if I like what they are doing with the Governor, I will agree with others that I was a little underwhelmed by the midseason finale. It has been a great season so far, but it seemed like they were rushing to a cliffhanger, and Michonne's actions just don't ring true. I mean, sure, the Governor tried to have her killed. But she seems like she has survived too long to get all Kill Bill on him the way she does in the show. It just seems to personal, and too reckless. Too expedient and conveniently tight-lipped. I didn't buy it. Oh well. Even with a few missteps it is still a strong season. Looking forward to more.
I really, really hope this was his choice, and not AMC forcing him out.
Edit: Apparently it was:
"My time as showrunner on 'The Walking Dead' has been an amazing experience, but after I finish season 3, it's time to move on. I have told the stories I wanted to tell and connected with our fans on a level that I never imagined. It doesn't get much better than that. Thank you to everyone who has been a part of this journey."
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/12/walking-dead-showrunner-glen-mazzara-exits-for-season-4.html
I think he should be portrayed as a "worse" person or just more villainous than he is. Not Nec. as psychotic and clearly evil as the comics but deffinately should be worse.
I mean, keeping those heads is creepy but thats about it. Keeping his daughter is understandable and hardly makes him bad and his experiments are perfectly sensible.
We know hes a bad guy cause we just do from experience and because its implied but as far as the show has SHOWN us though, hes not that different or much worse than Hershel or Rick IMO. At least not to the degree I think he should be anyway or to explain the other characters rallying against him as they have.
And if the Governor is going to last more than one season, how's that going to happen? Maybe there's a bigger threat out there that forces both groups to work together?
(Probably something else that isn't going to happen)
Deadline
On the other, Scott was a screenwriter on Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.
e
L nny
Darabont got to be the sole credited screenwriter (adapted, sure, but still the only credited screenwriter of the adaptation) and directed the script he wrote. That is usually a very different situation than the one Gimple was in. When you are one of a group of writers on a movie you are not directing, then there can be a big gap between what you wrote and what got made. They tends to be less the case in how TV gets made. Especially in situations where the writers are also producers. And especially when you are the showrunner.
I mean, nothing is guaranteed. Past performance, both good and bad, is no guarantee of future returns, as they say. But I don't know that Ghost Rider: SOV is a fair result to judge Gimple by. I would judge him more by the scripts he wrote for Walking Dead. There was likely fewer levels of separation between what he wrote and what got made in that case. And they are a better indication of what Walking Dead writing he will do and oversee in the future.