I've never read Alias or The Pulse but from what I've seen of her character she seems to be someone Bendis retconed into Marvel continuity. We're just supposed to go with the idea she was a superhero in the past and has now moved on.
The new show seems to be following this idea. Everything I've read says It's about a former superhero who is now a detective.
How does this work in the cinematic universe? Are they going to say she was flying around by herself, and had given up being a hero, before Iron Man and the others were on the scene? It'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
Who knows. How does movie time work (as opposed to comic book time)? Iron man came out in 2008. Is that really 7 years ago or 3 years or even 1 in the movieverse? She could try the hero thing for a few months, run into the purple man and then call it quits.
Maybe she was in Europe...with Gwen and Norman. That's where everyone goes when they need to be doing stuff but we don't know about it.
I've never read Alias or The Pulse but from what I've seen of her character she seems to be someone Bendis retconed into Marvel continuity. We're just supposed to go with the idea she was a superhero in the past and has now moved on.
The new show seems to be following this idea. Everything I've read says It's about a former superhero who is now a detective.
How does this work in the cinematic universe? Are they going to say she was flying around by herself, and had given up being a hero, before Iron Man and the others were on the scene? It'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
It's an interesting question. I haven't seen much of Agent Carter yet (looking forward to a rainy day for the rest of those), but given that SHIELD, and at least super weapons if not super humans, seem to go back to WW2; and in Captain America: Winter Soldier there seemed to be a lot of people (Stephen Strange and others) of enough interest/danger for those drone helicarriers to track and strike at. I haven't seen much of Agents of SHIELD, but I understand there have been some super human baddies on there outside of the Avengers themselves. So the cinematic universe has established that there are powers around outside of the Avengers. It might be a hard fit for a Jewel to have been some big, Iron Man like deal. But I could see introducing a character who was a minor, street level costume who then retired. In keeping with the Marvel Knights feel of Daredevil, and what seems to be the rest of the Netflix lineup, they might create a Jessica Jones whose career as Jewel was more local, and never splashy. I think that could fit.
Like Fury said in Iron Man: "Think you're the only superhero in the world? Mr. Stark, you've become part of a bigger universe. You just don't know it yet."
I dunno, even in Daredevil they made the idea of a costumed vigilante seem ludicrous to the characters in-universe. It does not seem to be something the MCU has a lot of experience with. It's just not baked in they way it should be to sell that concept. There are 3 options for how they deal with it: is it either ignores how spectacularly unusal a costumed superhero still is in the MCU (which is the worst option because it's lazy, but if the show stands on its own well, then it won't break the show).
she fails extremely early in her career, like day one.
or she never gets into costume and works under the radar until her career is cut short.
The last one is my preference. Scenario spitballing here: she gets her powers, is able to help some people as a proto-superhero (never more than a rumor), purple man happens, but she tries one last time after that, only for The Battle Of New York to happen and make her feel completely out of her league so she gives it up for good because there are real superheroes like Iron Man and Thor running around.
"It's just not baked in the(sic) way it should be to sell that concept."
Isn't that pretty subjective?
Option 4: she was a costumed hero for a time, but was able to stay under the radar & not get exposed to the public. The "man in black" wasn't really in the limelight for quite a while in the series.
I dunno, even in Daredevil they made the idea of a costumed vigilante seem ludicrous to the characters in-universe. It does not seem to be something the MCU has a lot of experience with. It's just not baked in they way it should be to sell that concept. There are 3 options for how they deal with it: is it either ignores how spectacularly unusal a costumed superhero still is in the MCU (which is the worst option because it's lazy, but if the show stands on its own well, then it won't break the show).
she fails extremely early in her career, like day one.
or she never gets into costume and works under the radar until her career is cut short.
The last one is my preference. Scenario spitballing here: she gets her powers, is able to help some people as a proto-superhero (never more than a rumor), purple man happens, but she tries one last time after that, only for The Battle Of New York to happen and make her feel completely out of her league so she gives it up for good because there are real superheroes like Iron Man and Thor running around.
I think there are lots of ideas they could make work.
SPOILERS UP TO EPISODE 6
Also, and take this with the caveat that I am only up to episode 6 (not for lack of enthusiasm, but I knew when this became a show that my wife and I would watch together, progress through the episodes would slow waaaaay down over if I just skipped sleep and watched it myself)... anyway, as of halfway through, I like that Daredevil, while clearly in the MCU, still feels tangential. The connections are light touches-- mentions of the invasion of New York. A joke about an iron suit or a magic hammer. But it doesn't feel like, when Fisk was blowing up all those buildings, that suddenly the Avengers or a SHIELD helicarrier were going to come and help, you know what I mean?
In that way, this Daredevil show feels like the Marvel Knights book of the early '00s. It wasn't out of continuity, but it also wasn't weighed down by whatever else was going on in the MU. Nor did it have to have the same style or tone of the brighter, more continuity-heavy MU books of the time.
My hope is that all these Netflix shows will be like that. Sure, they will build on the universe, and might be in dialogue with each other, building a sort of street-level MU as they head towards the Defenders. But I want the people behind each of these shows to feel like they can make the story decisions, tone and style, heck, even visual style decisions, that best serve the stories THEY are telling. So if, let's say, it works best for AKA Jessica Jones to pretend that she was actually quite a famous super hero before she quit, even though that might not exactly fit with the Avengers movies? Then, great. I don't think they will go that way.
But I would rather the guiding principle of each of these shows to be 'What Makes This Show Great'. NOT 'What Makes This Show Fit.'
But I would rather the guiding principle of each of these shows to be 'What Makes This Show Great'. NOT 'What Makes This Show Fit.'
Absolutely. As long as the show kicks butt that's all that matters. However, considering how well the cinematic U has fit together(so far) I couldn't help but wonder how her character will work.
I think Punisher could work as an antagonist in the Daredevil show because he is a villain *to* Daredevil. And Castle's methods and what he is willing to do is at cross-purposes to what Murdock is trying to do. And from Murdock's point of view he is a killer that needs to be stoped. That is usually how their clashes have worked over the years in the comics. No manipulation or mind control was needed. In a DD story, he could be the "villain", because he is playing an antagonistic role in that story.
That doesn't mean that, after being introduced in Daredevil, that Castle couldn't be the protagonist of a Punisher show. It would just be a very different show than DD. And one in which DD could show up as an antagonist or obstacle.
I think Punisher could work as an antagonist in the Daredevil show because he is a villain *to* Daredevil. And Castle's methods and what he is willing to do is at cross-purposes to what Murdock is trying to do. And from Murdock's point of view he is a killer that needs to be stoped. That is usually how their clashes have worked over the years in the comics. No manipulation or mind control was needed. In a DD story, he could be the "villain", because he is playing an antagonistic role in that story.
That doesn't mean that, after being introduced in Daredevil, that Castle couldn't be the protagonist of a Punisher show. It would just be a very different show than DD. And one in which DD could show up as an antagonist or obstacle.
This was what I really meant, before I got distracted by that big red "Don't Press" button.
I dunno, even in Daredevil they made the idea of a costumed vigilante seem ludicrous to the characters in-universe. It does not seem to be something the MCU has a lot of experience with. It's just not baked in they way it should be to sell that concept. There are 3 options for how they deal with it: is it either ignores how spectacularly unusal a costumed superhero still is in the MCU (which is the worst option because it's lazy, but if the show stands on its own well, then it won't break the show).
she fails extremely early in her career, like day one.
or she never gets into costume and works under the radar until her career is cut short.
The last one is my preference. Scenario spitballing here: she gets her powers, is able to help some people as a proto-superhero (never more than a rumor), purple man happens, but she tries one last time after that, only for The Battle Of New York to happen and make her feel completely out of her league so she gives it up for good because there are real superheroes like Iron Man and Thor running around.
I think there are lots of ideas they could make work.
SPOILERS UP TO EPISODE 6
Also, and take this with the caveat that I am only up to episode 6 (not for lack of enthusiasm, but I knew when this became a show that my wife and I would watch together, progress through the episodes would slow waaaaay down over if I just skipped sleep and watched it myself)... anyway, as of halfway through, I like that Daredevil, while clearly in the MCU, still feels tangential. The connections are light touches-- mentions of the invasion of New York. A joke about an iron suit or a magic hammer. But it doesn't feel like, when Fisk was blowing up all those buildings, that suddenly the Avengers or a SHIELD helicarrier were going to come and help, you know what I mean?
In that way, this Daredevil show feels like the Marvel Knights book of the early '00s. It wasn't out of continuity, but it also wasn't weighed down by whatever else was going on in the MU. Nor did it have to have the same style or tone of the brighter, more continuity-heavy MU books of the time.
My hope is that all these Netflix shows will be like that. Sure, they will build on the universe, and might be in dialogue with each other, building a sort of street-level MU as they head towards the Defenders. But I want the people behind each of these shows to feel like they can make the story decisions, tone and style, heck, even visual style decisions, that best serve the stories THEY are telling. So if, let's say, it works best for AKA Jessica Jones to pretend that she was actually quite a famous super hero before she quit, even though that might not exactly fit with the Avengers movies? Then, great. I don't think they will go that way.
But I would rather the guiding principle of each of these shows to be 'What Makes This Show Great'. NOT 'What Makes This Show Fit.'
Well, like I said, I thought some options are more ideal than others, but if the show stands well on its own its not going to be a big deal. A minor quibble, like the Avengers Tower missing from the NY skyline. Or Hell's Kitchen being just a little furthe away from the Battle of NY than DD made it seem. If it's bad, then it's just another strike against it, an easy and annoying nitpick.
I think Punisher could work as an antagonist in the Daredevil show because he is a villain *to* Daredevil. And Castle's methods and what he is willing to do is at cross-purposes to what Murdock is trying to do. And from Murdock's point of view he is a killer that needs to be stoped. That is usually how their clashes have worked over the years in the comics. No manipulation or mind control was needed. In a DD story, he could be the "villain", because he is playing an antagonistic role in that story.
That doesn't mean that, after being introduced in Daredevil, that Castle couldn't be the protagonist of a Punisher show. It would just be a very different show than DD. And one in which DD could show up as an antagonist or obstacle.
This was what I really meant, before I got distracted by that big red "Don't Press" button.
This sounds like a plot point in a movie coming out next March...interesting.
I like that Daredevil, while clearly in the MCU, still feels tangential. The connections are light touches-- mentions of the invasion of New York. A joke about an iron suit or a magic hammer. But it doesn't feel like, when Fisk was blowing up all those buildings, that suddenly the Avengers or a SHIELD helicarrier were going to come and help, you know what I mean?
I agree. Shield would be all over an act of terrorism that took out half the real estate in a 10 block radius.
Comments
(and... awesome so far)
I've never read Alias or The Pulse but from what I've seen of her character she seems to be someone Bendis retconed into Marvel continuity. We're just supposed to go with the idea she was a superhero in the past and has now moved on.
The new show seems to be following this idea. Everything I've read says It's about a former superhero who is now a detective.
How does this work in the cinematic universe? Are they going to say she was flying around by herself, and had given up being a hero, before Iron Man and the others were on the scene? It'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
Maybe she was in Europe...with Gwen and Norman. That's where everyone goes when they need to be doing stuff but we don't know about it.
Vansessa is there now running the Fisk operation.
Like Fury said in Iron Man: "Think you're the only superhero in the world? Mr. Stark, you've become part of a bigger universe. You just don't know it yet."
http://movieweb.com/daredevil-season-2-netflix-elektra-punisher-spider-man/
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is it either ignores how spectacularly unusal a costumed superhero still is in the MCU (which is the worst option because it's lazy, but if the show stands on its own well, then it won't break the show).
she fails extremely early in her career, like day one.
or she never gets into costume and works under the radar until her career is cut short.
The last one is my preference. Scenario spitballing here: she gets her powers, is able to help some people as a proto-superhero (never more than a rumor), purple man happens, but she tries one last time after that, only for The Battle Of New York to happen and make her feel completely out of her league so she gives it up for good because there are real superheroes like Iron Man and Thor running around.
Isn't that pretty subjective?
Option 4: she was a costumed hero for a time, but was able to stay under the radar & not get exposed to the public. The "man in black" wasn't really in the limelight for quite a while in the series.
M
SPOILERS UP TO EPISODE 6
Also, and take this with the caveat that I am only up to episode 6 (not for lack of enthusiasm, but I knew when this became a show that my wife and I would watch together, progress through the episodes would slow waaaaay down over if I just skipped sleep and watched it myself)... anyway, as of halfway through, I like that Daredevil, while clearly in the MCU, still feels tangential. The connections are light touches-- mentions of the invasion of New York. A joke about an iron suit or a magic hammer. But it doesn't feel like, when Fisk was blowing up all those buildings, that suddenly the Avengers or a SHIELD helicarrier were going to come and help, you know what I mean?
In that way, this Daredevil show feels like the Marvel Knights book of the early '00s. It wasn't out of continuity, but it also wasn't weighed down by whatever else was going on in the MU. Nor did it have to have the same style or tone of the brighter, more continuity-heavy MU books of the time.
My hope is that all these Netflix shows will be like that. Sure, they will build on the universe, and might be in dialogue with each other, building a sort of street-level MU as they head towards the Defenders. But I want the people behind each of these shows to feel like they can make the story decisions, tone and style, heck, even visual style decisions, that best serve the stories THEY are telling. So if, let's say, it works best for AKA Jessica Jones to pretend that she was actually quite a famous super hero before she quit, even though that might not exactly fit with the Avengers movies? Then, great. I don't think they will go that way.
But I would rather the guiding principle of each of these shows to be 'What Makes This Show Great'. NOT 'What Makes This Show Fit.'
Having said that, I'd really like to see an episode or 2 we there both are searching for the same person then face off after Castle kills that person.
M
It says right there, "Hired Assassin."
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That doesn't mean that, after being introduced in Daredevil, that Castle couldn't be the protagonist of a Punisher show. It would just be a very different show than DD. And one in which DD could show up as an antagonist or obstacle.
M
(Guess I need to go back to using emoticons.)
Would love to see this scene played out next season.